[titisteph]

Hello Nawagi,

Thank you so much for your help!

I understand it’s very usefull to have a lab with quite constant temperature.
Unfortunately, mine is in my garden, and impossible to warm in winter (no door, too much holes!) So, I’m dependent of the weather and it’s very difficult to progress like this.

And under 12°C, (mid october), it’s over for me, iodine doesn’t want to sensitive my plates. I must wait for spring to continue.

[titisteph]

Thank you, nawagi, for your fast answer!
So, I understand there is no real and easy way to obtain repeatable results with bromine… It’s a bad news for me…
I should be forced to do everytime a test plate just for bromine… exactly what I don’t want to do!

Dag is so incredibly difficult to practise!

But there is something I don’t understand : when you put your silica (charged with bromine-yellow color) into your fuming box, prior to doing a first test… how can you be sure there will be the same bromine concentration for the second test one hour later?

Is there a risk to have lower bromine concentration into the box after a moment, even if the color of the silica doesn’t changes? Is the yellow color is a good predictor?

Thank you for your help.

[titisteph]

Thank you for your answer! I’m goint to purchase that kind of board. Hope it’ll solve my trouble.

Is anybody can explain his own method for sealing his plates? I still didn’t find any good explanation about that.

Everybody speak about polishing, iodine, etc. But it’s very difficult to find good (easy to use!) informations about sealing.

Thank you!

[titisteph]

Thank you for your help!
I didn’t expect my mat (passe-partout) may be guilty!
I did a little research on Internet about unbuffered mats : it’s extremely expensive (sometimes 450 Euros/$ for one large sheet!!) and rare. And there is a poor choice of colors (only white or cream).

I’m disappointed and sad…

But I wonder if mat is the only one responsible : I stored several plates preserved with my method into a plastic bag, and I noticed none oxidation.

Is it possible for you to explain how do you proceed? What is your method?

[titisteph]

error

[titisteph]

titisteph wrote:

I explain my “bad” process. Please, hep me to find where I’m wrong!

First, I use a neutral cardboard with a hole in order to see the plate. I protect this behind a glass.
Then, I use a”hot glue gun” like this :

[titisteph]

Next step : I add an aluminium foil sticked with P90, in order to protect all the back against air.

And the result, despite all that work, oxidation comes after only 3 to 6 months!

What’s wrong?

Attachments:

You must be logged in to view attached files.

[titisteph]

Here is the back.

Attachments:

You must be logged in to view attached files.

[titisteph]

I fix the plate to the cardboard with the hot glue gun.
Then, I fix the cardboard to the glass by putting some hot glue all over the edges of the glass/cardboard. It’s difficult, but I think it’s a perfect way not to let the air reaching the plate.

After that, I add some Filmoplats P90 tape all over the edges.

Attachments:

You must be logged in to view attached files.

[titisteph]

I explain my “bad” process. Please, hep me to find where I’m wrong!

First, I use a neutral cardboard with a hole in order to see it. I protect this behind a glass.
Then, I use a”hot glue gun” like this :

Attachments:

You must be logged in to view attached files.

[titisteph]

I forgot to say that I didn’t gild this plate.

[titisteph]

(Mistake)

Attachments:

You must be logged in to view attached files.

[titisteph]

For the parking’s test I did today (from 5 to 20 secs in bromine), the result for 10 seconds is absolutely marvellous : very strong contrast, perfect exposure (for my taste : I like blue tones in highlights, withs details in shadows). The image is perfect : middle tones are not blue, but neutral (the image posted above was made by a bad scanner). I’m very happy, except for the brown haze.

I have almost no black spots, but still have white ones, and 2 or 3 very big. But it’s better. It’s because I polished the same plate several times, and I think alumina residues begins to disappear.

I did a fast picture of the plate, using my digital camera. You can see the strong and beautiful result.

But for that brownish stain, it’s a mystery. I’m disappointed by this awful stain!! See the green circle on the picture. The other red stains are… the reflection of my face!

And I have no chance : each time I do a test, it’s quite good. When I try to do a “real” image, the result is bad!

Attachments:

You must be logged in to view attached files.

[titisteph]

Following your questions, I suspected a wrong fixing or washing. Because it’s true that I didn’t use a fresh fixing solution (made 1 week ago), and I washed the plate quite fast. Because it was a simple test.

So I did a new fix solution, and I tried to fix again the plate, and do a good wash.
The result is exactly the same, I still have this brownish stain.

It’s not the first time I have that kind of stain. See this sample attached.
The circle in the center of the image, it’s camera’s reflection.

Attachments:

You must be logged in to view attached files.

[titisteph]

Another question : how do you store charged silica gel with bromine?

[titisteph]

Thanks a lot for sharing your experiment. You have a very hight safety level.

Mine seems to be not so hight.

I’m working to improve that, following your advices.
I’s very important to share those informations, and everyone should give here his recommandations.

You said you store your Br Iodine and Hg outside. What happens when it’s very cold or hot?
Bromine may boil in hot weather or freeze in cold weather.

For my own, I put my Hg bottle into a glass jar, sealed with a strong rubber joint (seal). I don’t know if it’s enough.
Same with iodine crystals.
For bromine (I use bromine water), I use the same principle, (bromine’s bottle into a glass jar) but I add some hypo crystals into the jar (following Photolytic’s advice). It works very well, but I use it since only today, so I don’t know what will it happen next months.

I let those jars into my lab. But I go there only for dag. It’s located into my garden.
Durink working, I use a professionnal fume hood, plus a respirator covering the face with Hg filters. Nitrile gloves and a another pair of chemical gloves on it during bromine manipulations.

[titisteph]

Hello,

I followed your advice and I put my bromine bottle into a sealed glass jar, with hypo crystals inside.
It works very well : fumes totally disappears into the jar. It’s so effective I’m afraid those crystals destroy bromine into the bottle!
I’m looking for a PTFE cap for my bottle.

I did a new test today, by reducing considerably the volume into my bromine box. I removed 70% of the volume inside by making a “cap” of the good size.

The glass jar containing bromine water is now 6 cm from the plate.
The result is fuming time becomes extremely short. I did a test with 5, 10, 15, 20 seconds.
Even at 5s there is an image. Good time is 10 seconds.

But I still have haze on some parts of the plate (see the brown one on the tree). Is it due to moisture?

So, reducing the volume of the box is not so effective. It’s just faster.

Attachments:

You must be logged in to view attached files.

[titisteph]

Nawagi said : Exposure in bright sun (EV=16) at f11 was 8 seconds
I obtain the same speed, more or less. So, my method seem to be quite good.

But I’m surprised with Pobboravsky’s exposure guide : I never reached the speed of his guide. If I follow the guide for 0,05 ISO speed, it’s always underexposed between 1 or 2 entire stops.
I have good results around +1,5 or even +2 stops.

But it’s not so simple, because I noticed different point of view between daguerreotypists. Some of them hate to solarize parts of their plates, so they underexpose in order to have correct tones. But the problem is following : their images are not easy to see on the plate (too light).

For my own, I prefer overexpose a bit, in order to have a strong image, easy to read for public, even if parts are solarized. So I prefer measuring exposure for shadows (a bit, not entirely).

[titisteph]

Thank you for those advices.
I’m going to adapt my box to reduce volume inside. I won’t make an entire new box again.
I do that, then, I’ll be back for the results!

[titisteph]

Sincerely, thank you again for you help. This is securing me.

So, can I use this way : putting my bromine bottle into a bigger glass container wich contains crystals of sodium thiosulfate in it? It’s easier to do.

I already use sodium thiolusfate delayed in water to wash my instruments contaminated by bromine. It works very well.

You’re right to write that the odour is also a friend. It’s a signal wich permits to worry and react.

I note your advice to use Teflon cap to seal the bromine bottle.

About my problems of homogeneity with bromine, someone here told me that my bromine box is too big for good result. He says it’s impossible to have good results with a so big box. I should use a box the same size than the plate. And I should not use wood, wich absorbs bromine (too dangerous).
What do you think about that? Should I make another one? It’s boring me, because I spent a lot of time to do it!

Thanks a lot!

[titisteph]

To answer to Photolytic :
– My polishing dough doesn’t contain alumina at all. I wrote to the supplier, and he confirms.
More and more, I’m convinced that my spots comes from a problem during silvering. I found a new supplier, and I’ll try it soon.

My plate holder, on my fuming box is made from little corners of plastic wich maintain the plate. I don’t use camera plate holder.

For Nawagi : thanks for your answer!
I’m interested for providing prep details from you!

For bromine into silica gel : I’m afraid to use pure bromine into my lab. Vapors are too dangerous. I’m already very afraid to use my bromine water, because of the smell. I don’t have the same felling with iodine and even mercury.

I have a good fume hood and a professionnal mask covering all the face. I don’t smell anything during using it.
But my problem is : how do you store safety bromine without any odour, between two works?

My bromine water is in a glass bottle with plastic cap, and it stinks into my lab. When it’s cool, it’s OK, but during summer, with high temperatures, it becomes to be dangerous. So, I add another glass container to reduce odour. But after a few weeks, it stinks again. I don’t have any solution.

I hate this odour. I’m afraid with it. How do you solve that?

[titisteph]

I learn much more by reading you than everything I read since years! Thanks again and again for sharing your great experiment. It’s so precious.

During bromine fuming (20 seconds) : yes, I rotate the plate one time, at half of the total time.
Actually, I suspected moisture of the bromine water to be responsible of my troubles.
And I understand now why I had blue tones on my plates!

So, I would try to use silica gel, but you say it’s important to preserve it from moisture. I wanted to use my bromine water to saturate silica gel : I understand it’s a mistake. I can’t do that, because moisture into the water will be absorbed by silica gel and destroy the benefit.
I’m afraid to introduce pure bromine into my lab. My bromine water stink already a bit, because odour goes through the cap of the bottle, even perfectly closed. I put it into another container, but the odour continue to go away. If I use pure bromine, it would be worse. I don’t know how to store it with a good safety level.

About spots : I buff at least 5-7 mn with my ROB for each part of polishing : rouge, lampblack, and pure ultrasuede.
But before rouge, I use a polishing dough (on ultrasuede with ROB) very efficient to remove scraches. Then, I clean the plate with water and dish soap. I dry the plate with air compressor. I know this part is my invention, I hope it’s not another mistake.

So total time is at least 25-30 minutes. Your advice is to continue longer. Ok, I’ll try it. But if my plates are not well silvered, I’m afraid it’s unusefull work.

A question : how do you remove a failed image from the plate prior to ROB? With the rotary buffing machine and rouge?

For iodine box : I’ll try too to put more iodine into it and reduce space between iodine and the plate holder.

[titisteph]

Another test…
I chose to overexpose 1 stop, following Irv’s exposure guide. It’s still a bit dark. Half a stop more would be better.
The right of the plate begins to be overbromated.

Attachments:

You must be logged in to view attached files.

[titisteph]

Thank you!

Very impressive work!

I did my first dags with Marc. He uses a very simple box (it’s a wine box, made from wood), same size than mine. He uses the same plastic box inside.
It’s true that iodine vapors attacks plastic. But not so fast. Since 2 years I have mine, the inside became black, but not destroyed. It’s still in good condition.

If my box goes too slowly, I think it’s not so important if the result is reached all the same?

I did another plate today. Since several weeks, I still have 3 boring problems on all may plates :
– White and black spots. Now, I understand it’s due to my silver supplier who probably use alumine powder. For the future, I’ll try to find another one. For the moment, I must continue to use those I have, and I’m angry, those spots are simply horrible.

– Sometimes, I have haze (only on some parts of the image, not all surface), due to too much bromine. I use bromine water. (Because I don’t want to have pure bromine into my lab, too dangerous.). But it seems to be very difficult with bromine water, even while using always the same quantity and time. I did many tests to find the good time. Each time, I think to have found the good one, and unfortunately, I’m wrong.
I think to use soon bromine with silica gel, like Mike Robinson. I hope to fix the problem by this way.

– Still have between 1 and 2 stop missing speed on the images. (VS Pobboravsky’s exposure guide).

I did a new test today, and I followed your advice to let the plate receiving light after bromine. You’re right, it seem to be a bit better for speed.
See the file attached. I’m desespered with the result! Spots, haze (and not the same speed all over the plate), underexposed… everything is bad.

My big problem, it’s bromine.

I’m only 2 years of practice, I realize I can spend all my life doing tests. Nevertheless, I hope to have a good result one day!
It’s strange, because when I began, using only iodine, I had better results. Bromine is very difficult to use!

Attachments:

You must be logged in to view attached files.

[titisteph]

Thank you so much for sharing your knowledge.

Your result is very surprising! I have none color after 10 seconds into iodine. Color changes very slowly, minute per minute.
After one minute, I get a very light yellow color, getting stronger after 2 to 3 minutes. Pink color arrives after that.
The blue color comes after 6 minutes at least.

I noticed that color is always stronger ont the edges of the plate VS the center. It is said it’s a normal phenomenon. Is there a simple way to fix this (I’m too lazy to use Daguerre’s method, who used silver pieces all around the plate!)?

Just before putting the plate into the iodine box,I use a hairdryer to warm the plate.

I put iodine (half of a glass) into the box, and I cover it with paper handkerchief.
The iodine and his paper are always into the iodine box. But they are into a plastic box (at the bottom of the iodine box). I put a plastic cover on it when not in use.
It’s a way teached by Marc Kereun, a famous daguerreotypist here in France. He prefer to have the time to see slowly changing colors onto the plate. Is it a mistake?

Attachments:

You must be logged in to view attached files.

[Author]

Posts