[RonF]

One thing that took me some time to figure out when I started becquerel is that it is much easier to prevent heat buildup when your development allows the plate to stand vertically rather than horizontally (at least with my setup). I thought that perhaps this may help as heat buildup could be a source of fogging.

[RonF]

I feel very badly for you. I had a similar experience when I moved my belongings via UPS from Portland, OR to Boston. I took my valuables with me when I flew, but then I checked my bags. My bags took a detour to LA and when they got to me, my most valuable possessions were missing. Then when my UPS boxes arrived, they were damaged and torn and there were things missing.

As far as UPS goes, I had a friend who worked at an oriental rug store (in Portland, OR). He said that when they shipped rugs, they would never state the full value because if they did, they would never get to their destination. But then again, the risk of under-insuring is self-evident. So the whole thing is a catch-22.

Your dags are certainly recognizable. If anyone had the nerve to post them on eBay I would see them and contact you.

I am sorry about your loss. I would be curious to know how the claims process goes; but having made a few dags I understand this is not just about the material value.

[RonF]

Hi-

I wish I knew why this forum so so quiet lately (or perhaps it was unusually active when I joined a while ago). I was going to leave this to others, as some of my posts have missed the mark, but I do have a hunch on this.

I suspect that your problem is not what you think it is. The lampblack serves to highlight other problems/impurities and it should be easy to tell if you have any left any on the plate. If you have removed all of the impurities after polishing and you can wipe the whole plate with ultrasuede and it comes up clean, then go ahead and put some lampblack on. You don’t need a ton, but perhaps more than you have been using. Then with a new piece of ultrasuede, distribute the lampblack over the plate. Keep using new pieces of ultrasuede to pick up the lampblack until they come up clean. At that point, you can be pretty sure that your plate has no contaminants on the surface. If you still have spots then it could have something to with issues with the plate or with impurities in the fixer, or perhaps the fixer is too strong.

As always, more details might help. Have you been reusing the same plates?

[RonF]

I wish that I could delete that last post, I waited too long.

OK, I was wrong, the highlights on a regular dag are in fact amalgams or contain amalgams.

I’ll have to go dig up my copy of “The daguerreotype: nineteenth-century technology and modern science” By M. Susan Barger, William Blaine White. I was just looking at it online, but I own it.

[RonF]

As long as you pose this question, I still don’t know what a regular daguerreotype is :<)

What I mean is that years ago I read that the white area on a daguerreotype plate is an amalgam, but I never thought that was right. I have come to think that perhaps the white on a dag and/or a b-dag is pure silver redeposited in a crystalline form; but I am by no means sure and I still don’t understand the mechanisms involved.

[RonF]

I think that brass in indeed more forgiving. I was electroplating copper before. I gave brass a try, and I made my first acceptable plate. I settled for a less than perfect polish on the brass, which of course meant there was no way that I could get a great polish on the silver-plated plate. However, I still managed to make a decent dag on the imperfect plate.

I am not convinced that electro-cleaning is necessary. Keep in mind that when people talk about electroplating in general, they are not addressing an audience of daguerreotypists. We are used to clearing a plate of all contaminants with ultrasuede, etc. In any case, my best plate so far was one that I did not electroclean. There was a place on the edge where the silver came off, thankfully only about 1/16″ on a portion of one edge. I was able to polish the plate somewhat aggressively without any further loss of silver.

I probably would be more open to electrocleaning if it were not so much of a pain in the butt. I haven’t found what I was looking for. The electrocleaning solution I use has to be heated. Then the cleaning process uses current in the same direction as the plating. As I read, this is going to cause the contaminants to be attracted to the plate. In any case, my best result to date was on a plate that was not electrocleaned so I am going to skip that step for the time being. Yet for some reason I am not comfortable suggesting that others do the same, so I guess I would remind people that there are so many subtleties to this all that what works for me may not work for you. It is possible that my plate would have been better if I electrocleaned it, and it is possible that my electroplating solution is getting contaminated for lack of chemical cleaning.

I electroplate several times what should be required according to the science. The main reason I suppose is that I have not been successful in getting a perfectly even layer of silver, so I have to plate to the point that the thinnest part is thick enough. I will post a pic of my dag at some point.

[RonF]

Many thanks, Andy, and one question:

I just want to repeat my earlier comment that it is so nice that daguerreotypists are so willing to spend the time to share their methods with others!

I would like to try this, but after reading on this forum that brass may be easier to plate than copper, I finally picked up some brass; so I am not quite ready to switch gears again yet.

I do have one question about something you wrote in the document “Glass daguerreotypes… are more fragile than metal substrate images, they need mechanical protection as well.”

Are you referring to the possibility of the glass breaking, the silver lifting, or both?

(I haven’t read the whole doc yet, so my apologies if I am asking you to repeat yourself)

[RonF]

Thanks for the advice, Andy. Once I realized that there are people out there selling these, I did a google search and found one from a seller on etsy.com.

Whittmore-Durgin is looks like a good company, but their shipping costs were a little high for this.

– Ron

[RonF]

oh yeah; forgot to mention: developed becquerel 20 ” from 500 W halogen through amberlith. 2 hrs.

[RonF]

Here’s my latest. I still need to treat it with gold chloride and then seal it. I’ll need to take the passe partout apart as I think that there are remnants of the old seal floating around, hence the dust.

The dag is on a reclaimed quarter plate.

…to digress a bit

I am no longer wiping any antique plates, as I am learning how to electroplate; but of course electroplating is proving challenging. I made one great plate “from, scratch”, and it worked to make a dag; but then I contaminated my plating solution (I think) as the subsequent three tries have not worked. The silver has been peeling off. One might think that means that I have not been cleaning/preparing the copper plates properly, but I am pretty sure that is not the case.

I was frustrated with the plating, so I decided to use an old quarter plate that I had previously prepared….

specs on this photo

I sensitized it until it was violet with some blue. I used a 100 W Halide light with an improvised reflector about 22″ from the center of the frame. I used an f 5.6 150mm lens. Exposed for 1 hr, 5 min.

 

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[RonF]

Hi Corey-

The bulb’s color temp is 4200 K.

The fixture I bought, which included the bulb, is a Premium Area Light, Home Depot # 100652893.

I always have felt that color temperature must not tell the whole story. I know from physics that most bulbs must have spikes at many frequencies, so one number can’t tell the whole story. Perhaps you agree and that is why you also asked “How much high spectrum light does it put out?”. I don’t know how to answer that question.

It may be the case that (in spite of what I said above above) as long as we are talking about bulbs that put out visible light, the higher the color temp the better. I am not sure. I just feel that in general, halides are used for growing plants, and dags tend to like the light that plants like.

Of course in researching this just now, I learned that halides can vary quite a bit in color temp. This is consistent with the one simple rule regarding making dags: nothing related to making dags is simple.

I am happy with my new light. I have a dag developing now and I can see it was properly exposed. The exposure time may be no shorter than when I was using 2-3 compact flourescents (daylight type), but it is much easier to position one halide light. Of course now I want more of them.

* (added 10:15 PM) I just fixed and dried my dag and I now see that the 100 W Halide is providing much more light than I was ever able to get out of 2-3 compact fluorescents. An overesposed plate but an excellent day, my first dag on a home-made plate! I will be posting some comments re: plating tomorrow.

[RonF]

I finally got a 100 Watt Halide lamp and it is very effective for the becquerel process. I bought the cheapest one, which was designed to disperse light, then I made a reflector out of a disposable aluminum roasting pan. I had an exposure time of 15 minutes with a lens of about f 3.3 (a projector lens, not too sharp, seeing what I can do for speed right now).

In comparison, I got nothing out of a 500 W halogen, I don’t remember the details of that experiment but I gave it as mush time as I would with a few compact fluorescents.

Does anyone know where I might find a reflector of the type that goes along side a bulb? I didn’t find one at Lowe’s or Home Depot.

A tip for anyone buying a Halide lamp: at least one maker sells a 75 W lamp that includes a 50 W bulb rather than a 75 W bulb. And of course read the related posts re: burn hazards and Klieg eye.

Another question: how much of a risk does my 100 W lamp pose for skin burn or klieg eye? I am proceeding cautiously but I feel like perhaps 100 W may not be a huge danger as long as I don’t look at it or get it very close to my skin. Also, can you get Klieg eye from the light hitting your eyes at an angle, or is it just from looking into the light?

[RonF]

Ken-

No offense taken. This is a point that I had thought about before so I had a response in my head ready to rattle off.

It is all subjective and I can’t fault you for being very much in favor of preservation. I struggled with the issue at first but decided that what I was doing is ok, but that working with new plates is the way to go in the future. (At least it is for the most part, I still may come across pictures that are deteriorated enough that I may rub them out, but I am not seeking them too actively)

I am sorry if my statement about not losing sleep over it may have been overly-defensive and perhaps that was what made you think I was offended.

I received my new plates (copper etching plates) and I can’t wait until I have the time to try plating them and using them. There will be the advantages of consistency (if I do it right), preservation, and I can’t wait to do something bigger than a 1/6 plate!

To end on a high note; I want to repeat how thrilled I am that this forum exists where people with shared interests take the time to give such thoughtful replies.

– Ron

[RonF]

Mercury- (re: the morality of destroying an image)

I understand your point about destroying any daguerreotype image, however compromised to begin with. I bought two lots of plates (about 10 total) from a reputable dealer for the explicit purpose of reusing the plates. Some of them had images that were ok and I didn’t rub them out. Some of the plates had images that were barely visible, they had been rubbed out but not completely. I rubbed them out to use the plates. Sorry, but I simply do not feel that I did a huge crime. I was always aware that some people would feel that way. If they were photos of some significance, that significance is not significant if no one recognizes it. If a dealer with a good network can’t sell it for more than a few dollars then no one appreciates it. There were at least 10’s of million dags made and a lot survive. People always do things like unbind old books, or modify antique photos to make modern art out of them. There are always people who object to these activities. Hopefully the images destroyed represent a small part of the number of the surviving objects and would not be really appreciated anyways.

As the number of existing old dags decreases slowly; and the number on the market decreases as collectors hoard them, eventually no one would be able to buy a dag cheaper than a modern dag plate.

Would you say that someone should not throw out a 1990’s snapshot? Even if no one appreciates it and the owner does not want to store it? If so, where would you draw the line. I hate to see a decent image destroyed, but I am willing to make that call and I can still sleep at night.

For the majority of the ones I used, I was able to polish the plate and still have enough silver to make images, though some wore through to the copper at the edges during my first polishing. (I still use those).

Finally; you will be glad to know that I am not doing this anymore. I look forward to getting the polished copper plates that I ordered, and to try my hand in electroplating. I also have a piece of sterling I am going to try galvanizing.

If I get good at plating, perhaps I could sell the plates cheaply enough that no one could ever locate an old image cheaper than the cost of one of my plates. (I’m not promising anything here, I know it may be tricky).

…And if someone had a boy and a girl they could name her Cathode and name him Anode. I’m not even going to start a list of possible puns here, but I enjoyed yours.

[RonF]

Mercury-

Love the line “My current plater, whom I would trust to plate my children…” !

Agreed that under-polishing can leave a latent image that could reappear. I had this issue more when I was recycling antique plates for the first time. I haven’t had this happen when rubbing off my own images. I am not sure if it is because my images are often under-saturated, because they are becquerel-developed, because they are not treated with gold chloride, or because I have become better at polishing.

Good to learn about the green tint on sensitizing indicating too thin a layer of silver. I was wondering how one would know when this was the case.

[RonF]

Sorry about my mis-information re: new plates. I had seen so many stories about plating not being done to spec that I thought that many out there may not have as much silver. I did use the word “may”, but I should stick to things I know first-hand.

The part about old plates was based on actual experience, I have found that they can be reused several times providing you only do a light polishing each time.

[RonF]

The short answer is “yes”. This is what most of us do all the time. If you are repolishing a used plate, you shouldn’t have to remove much silver, so there will usually still be enough silver to resensitize and reuse.

If the plate had been treated with gold chloride, it will require a lot more polishing. If the plate has defects such as pits, then polishing won’t solve that problem. If you are dealing with antique plates and there was gold painted on, that spot always be there, in my experience.

I use old plates that were previously been ruined in some way, I was able to buy some that already had the images wiped off. When I started, I was doing much more polishing than I had to and I still usually had enough silver to do multiple tries on the same plate.

Modern plates may have less silver on them, in which case you would not be able to repolish them as many times.

[RonF]

Thanks a lot, photolytic! My dad (an electrical engineer) had the same general idea. Now that you have done the math for me, this will be a lot easier.

I am pleasantly surprised by how much effort modern daguerreotypists will put into helping one another. What a wonderful thing this forum is.

I can’t wait until my plates arrive. I will be sure to keep you all in the loop. Hopefully my update will be on the topic of “my latest dag”.

[RonF]

RE: Sensitivity Curve (~340-400 nm; UVA and perhaps some violet)

When I was looking into this a while back, I found one reference to this. It’s not a curve per se but it may help answer Jon L’s question and with the topic of lighting etc.

http://www.photobiology.info/Hockberger.html

“In 1842, Becquerel and Draper independently showed that when sunlight was passed through a prism onto a daguerreotype plate (a gelatin emulsion containing silver iodide), wavelengths between 340-400 nm induced a photochemical reaction.”

(I am thinking that the “gelatin emulsion” is an error in this modern interpretation of the old documents, but I assume that they transcribed the numbers right.)

Depending which source I believe, 340-400 nm is either mostly in the UVA with a little violet, or it is all in the UVA.

[RonF]

Rereading my post, I just realized I may not have been clear about one thing: I am looking for a light source to illuminate the subject for the exposure. For the development I am all set (I use a halogen).

Jonathan- I think you knew that when you posted the reply, but I am not sure. I thought that a halogen would not put out a lot of UVA and I thought that UVA was what I needed for the exposure.

[RonF]

Hi Chriso-

Congratulations on the sale! It’s doubly nice when someone appreciates your image and you also make some money.

I am making dags. I use old plates that I bought with the images already rubbed off. I am still in the learning stage, not ready to try to sell them yet.

I was wondering if you could explain to me what a soldered silver image is. Is this a process where you plate a copper plate by using silver solder? Would you be willing to explain the process?

Thanks,

Ron

[RonF]

This is a great idea for a forum topic! It’s cool to have some idea of a person behind all these names, some of which I have seen around for a while. (Who knew Jonathan Danforth was a programmer?)

My name is Ronald Fink. I live in the Boston area.

I have been collecting daguerreotypes on and off for over 25 years now. Before eBay was around, I would find most of my images at PHSNE shows (phsne.org).

I do as much selling as buying, so I don’t have much of a collection at the moment. Not that I ever want to sell them, it’s just that I have always struggled to make ends meet and of everything I have, dags are the easiest to sell.

As long as I have been collecting dags, I have been saying “one of these days I am going to make one”. I took a stab or two over the years with no luck at all. For the past six months or so, I have been working on it when I get the chance. I have been able to purchase a dozen or so vintage plates that had no image (or the image was destroyed) so my work so far has been on those.

I have made about six that are good enough that I don’t want to rub them out. They are not good enough to sell, but I want to keep them. I occasionally share them on facebook, but they all have flaws and I am not ready to call myself a daguerreotypist yet. I feel that I am getting pretty close to having really good images. When I do, I will put some pics up here.

Now that I introduced myself, I am going to post some questions!

[Author]

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