[photolytic]

Race,

Polishing copper with 6-30 micron paper is OK, but too agressive for silver.

Switch back to 1-3 micron green chome oxide, rouge and lampblack and those swirls should go away.

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[photolytic]

Great pic–Of a frame.

Here’s the real thing with the actual image photographed by David Burder in 2003 and published in the D_Society news letter that year.

 

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[photolytic]

I use denatured alcohol from the home improvement stores which contains <4% methanol.

All drinking alcohol contains 5% water since a 95/5 ethanol/water mixture has a lower boiling point (Azeotrope) than pure alcohol.

After washing my plates in tap water, I hold them my hand and flow DI water over them end to end 4 times. Them I repeat this process with alcohol. Here’s a tip I’ve recommended before. Always wear a latex glove on the hand holding the plate as the alcohol will dissolve skin oils and leave an oily deposit on the plate.

Distilling your own water is certainly an option but you may end up using more energy from non-renewable sources unless you use wood or the sun to supply the heat.

Soft water should not be confused with distilled or deionized water. It usually contains more sodium rather than calcium or magnesium ions. Typically municipal water from rivers or shallow reservoirs contains less calcium hardness than water from wells or deep lakes like we have in Chicago.

[photolytic]

I now use what is labeled “distilled water” but I have used deionized water in the past.

Either one can become contaminated with fine parties of nonionic or biological matter.

For critical work some recommend using double distilled water or deionised water that has been filtered though a 0.2 micron filter.

I find distilled water works fine for rinsing non gilded images which repel water rather well. However for drying gilded images, which have a more matt surface, I find it desirable to rinse the plates with alcohol before blow drying.

[photolytic]

This is not the first mention of Daguerreotypes without mercury on this forum.

I call your attention to a portion of a PDF of mine on heliochromes posted by John Lewis 7 months ago.

 

They were made by coating silver plates for 3 minutes in 3.0 or 4.5% FeCl3 solutions which also

contained 2.2 or 2.6% CuSO4 respectively followed by a 5 second rinse in distilled water. Longer

contacts with water both before and after exposure were avoided.

These plates were exposed through a color transparency until a muted color image was visible.

When these plates were fixed in a solution of sodium thiosulfate, the colors completely disappeared, leaving behind a B&W Daguerreotype image, produced not only without mercury but without nasty iodine bromine or chlorine fumes.

 

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[photolytic]

Powdered Rouge:

http://www.progresstool.com/pd_red_rouge_polishing.cfm

Powdered Lampblack:

http://naturalpigments.com/detail.asp?PRODUCT_ID=480-50S

http://shop2.chemassociates.com/shopsite/Chemassoc2/PAS-lampblack.html

[photolytic]

If you are using a series of polishing agents of different sizes with a polishing fluid like the olive oil IRC uses, then you would wipe the surface of the plate and the surface of the polishing table (usually a sheet of plate glass) between polishes to remove any polishing skum and minimize cross contamination.

However, during the subsequent dry polishing steps you are using only a sprinkle of polishing agent on the plate and this is almost entirely taken up by the pad during polishing leaving only a trace of polishing agent on the plate. Also all the subsequent polishing agents are nearly the grit same size, differing mainly in hardness. Hence there is no need to remove them before going on the next polishing step.

After the final polishing step it is desirable to remove all traces of polishing agents from the plate as these particles will cause holes in the coating and black spots in the Daguerreotype image.

[photolytic]

A good polishing procedure Andy but I would make one suggestion.

Washing the plate with soap and water after the use of olive oil is good but I would avoid any application of water after polishing with rouge or lampblack. After step 2 any traces of residual polish will be removed by the next polishing pad.

Blow drying water from the plates, even with air filters over the in air intake of the dryer, often leaves minute “water marks” due to the presence of dust or polishing agent particles in the air.

After step 3 a brief final dusting or polishing with a series of “clean” polish applicators leaves the surface free of lampblack and dust. Just prior to fuming the plate, any remaining dust or polishing pad fibers can be blown from the surface of the plate using bursts of air from a large rubber syringe bulb. The use of “canned air” is not advised as traces of propellant and water vapor are often left on the plate

John

[photolytic]

Great video Andy. Thanks for posting this.

The standard laboratory method for handling mercury spills involves sprinkling powdered zinc on the spill. This binds with the mercury forming a clumped mercury amalgam solid which can be more easily removed and handled by standard toxic solids disposal methods. It is curious that the video showed direct vacuuming of liquid mercury rather than the more easily contained amalgam method. Since most mercury amalgams, like the “silver” fillings in some dental caries, still give off some mercury vapor, they need to be properly disposed. It would have been very informative to visualize the mercury release from amalgams using this UV light method.

John

[photolytic]

Nice suggestion Irv.

Does it make any difference what color or thickness of ultrasuede you use?

The adds says “color migration may occur if dark-colored is combined with light-colored fabric”

What is meant by it “polishes faster” than velvet.

Is it more abrasive or does it just hold more polishing agent (i.e. dirt) as the add suggests?

Do you use it with alumina or rouge?

How about random orbital polishing speed.

As a man made fiber (80% Polyester 20% Polyamide) is it prone to melting at high polishing speeds or plate temperatures?

Many thanks for posting this recommendation Irv.

John

[photolytic]

Nick, I see you are in Chicago.

Why don’t you just call or visit Coult Greenwell at Reliable plating, 1538 West lake street.

http://www.reliableplating.com/directions.htm

They do the best silver plating job in the midwest and have silver plated my Daguerreotype plates for years.

Look at Rio Grande’s website,

https://www.riogrande.com/home/

They also sell non-cyanide silver plating solutions and other supplies for tank plating.

Brush silver plating is mainly for patching worn spots on existing silver plate where extremely small amounts of silver and direct current are required. For larger areas requiring heavy silver application, a silver anode and a larger rectifier are also needed, since the amount of silver in the plating solution is minimal and needs to be replaced as the silver in the solution is deposited on the copper surface.

[photolytic]

Rod has excellent advice. Seek out an experienced silver plater.

Do a little research on the internet to familiarize yourself with basic electroplating concepts.

Although silver plater formulas differ, after a thorough industrial wide test, most silver platers agreed that silver cyanide baths produced the best coating.

I think you may have been misled about relative effects of Becquerel vs mercury processing on the silver layer. Pobboravsky (1971) reported that the silver halide coating on a plate fumed to the second yellow tinged with red is 110 nm thick whereas the coating on a plate fumed to the first yellow cycle is only 30nm thick. So unless you are using very thinly coated Becquerel plates, you may be consuming 2-3 times as much silver as you would for a mercury process plate. Granted there are occasions when even thicker coatings may be needed for both processes but generally speaking more silver is consumed in the Becquerel process.

Some Daguerreotypists on this forum have reported that they are able to make 2 or 3 Becquerel images on their plates before reaching the copper substrate. It has been my experience that mercury process plates generally last through 5 to 8 cycles before the silver wears through.

[photolytic]

Please read my “Frozen in Time” article in the resources section of the forum.

Both heat and humidity accelerate the destruction of the latent image of Dags.

If excess heat and humidity are present, store your sensitized and exposed plates in Ziploc plastic bags with lots of desiccant and work fast. If you use artificial means of cooling (AC, ice) you need to be especially cautious when you open the bags and expose your cool plates to more humid air. The slightest amount of condensation on the surface of a cold plate will rapidly erase or degrade the latent image. Allow the plates to warm up to the dew point before opening the bag.

Normally the winter months are little more forgiving but you still need to be cautious about moisture exposure. When temps reach 0C you have almost unlimited time (i.e., a week) before the latent image fades. At 10C the image will last about a day. At 20C the image will last several hours. At 30C, you have 15-30 minutes to work with. At 40C, you’d better have that mercury bath warmed up in advance.

Normally for Becquerel plates time is a less important factor but keeping the plates relatively cool until the image starts to show is important. Once the image begins to appear the silver atoms in the latent image have clumped together and grown more resistant to attack by water and other chemicals that might be present on the surface of the plate, giving you more time for completing the development process.

[photolytic]

Jon,

This problem can occur when Daguerreotypes are overexposed and underdeveloped.

These images appear to be normal when viewed under water which has a higher refractive index than air. However, when dried, the image may be pale blue in color and are almost invisible under normal viewing conditions.

When examined under a scanning electron microscope at 2000x magnification, the images of these daguerreotypes consist of uniformly small particles less than 0.1 microns in diameter. These particles are so small that only the shorter, blue wavelengths of light are refracted properly. Gilding will not correct this problem but coating the image with a layer of varnish having a high refractive index will make the image more visible.

Normal, fully developed, Daguerreotypes have image particles that are about 1 micron in diameter, large enough to refract the full spectrum if visible light. See “Warming up to cold Mercury” in the resources section.

[photolytic]

Note that Tape 667 has “no messy liner to remove” so it tends to stick to your hand if you press it to the plate, whereas the Poster tape has a protective white paper on one side which is not messy and allows you to press the tape firmly in place before the paper is removed.

It is advisable to press the tape in place before initiating any buffing operation. If you do not, the plate is likely to move when vigorous hand buffing is applied, and particularly when buffing with Random orbital buffing machines. Additional hand pressure is still needed when buffing with high speed rotary machines. I grip the plate in a simple J-shaped piece of corrugated cardboard lined with a folded piece of soft tissue paper for this operation.

[photolytic]

You can find the Scotch Poster tape, catalog 109 and all, at Hillas packaging

http://www.hillas.com/Products/3M_Other_Packaging_Products/3M_109_3_4X150.asp

[photolytic]

I’ve been using Scotch double sided, removable, “Poster Tape” (cat 109) for years.

A 1 inch piece at the corner of each plate will hold the plate firmly to a Plexiglas or glass surface firmly during hand buffing operations, thus eliminating the need for clamps. It will also stick to plate holders, without pressure, so it should be removed beforehand if you use double-sided holders in your camera.

[photolytic]

It appears to me that your polishing line decision is pretty much a matter of personal preference. There are those of you who have said that they like the magical transformation that a Dag undergoes when you rotate and tilt it in the light until all the surface imperfections disappear and image suddenly pops right out at you in an almost holographic manner. These Dag makers should stick with unidirectional hand polishing most often found on the Dags of 19th Century itinerant practitioners.

Then there are others, who, contemplating the making of large Dags for gallery exhibition, seek to eliminate as much of these surface lines as possible. In the 19th Century these were the Daguerreotypists who used large steam powered belt polishers. With these devices the time and effort to achieve the best polishing was greatly reduced.

Several modern practitioners choose a Random orbital polisher with variable speed adjustment, such as the Bosch model 3725DEVS. What ever polisher you choose, it must have random orbital motion. A “round” polisher with circular motion won’t do.

The polisher should be set it at the lowest possible operating speed. When polishing dry with powdered rouge you may get some haze after prolonged polishing. This haze will be removed when the plate is subsequently polished with lampblack. Daguerreotype plates thus polished react more evenly to iodine fumes producing a more uniform coating. See the “polishing silver” topic for more details.

Random orbital polishers should be equipped with some sort of sponge applicator pads such as the Bosch model R5013. These pads attach to most 5inch Random orbital polishers via a hook and eye (Velcro) pad on the back. The front is a rigid polyfoam pad which can be covered with soft buckskin or velvet by sewing it to the pad with heavy thread. Some Daguerreotypists use this system for preliminary wet polishing of Dag plates using a series of fine submicron sized alumina powders with liquid carriers such as olive oil or xylene to achieve the best polish. I prefer to use a high speed jeweler’s wheel polisher to remove the deeper scratches. I follow this up with a Random Orbital polish with rouge, and then lampblack, and finally a buff with a clean pad to remove all polishing powders. When the velvet gets too dirty cut it off the pad, throw it out and replace it with new velvet. Velvet is not water washable and you’ll never the grit out. If the pads are soft enough and the polishing agent fine enough there will be no visible lines, therefore no problems viewing your Dags regardless of the angle. If you can see lines, then you need to polish more with a finer polishing agent. If you still see lines, then you may be applying too much pressure on the polisher.

[photolytic]

It appears to me that your polishing line decision is pretty much a matter of personal preference. There are those of you who have said that they like the magical transformation that a Dag undergoes when you rotate and tilt it in the light until all the surface imperfections disappear and image suddenly pops right out at you in an almost holographic manner. These Dag makers should stick with unidirectional hand polishing most often found on the Dags of 19th Century itinerant practitioners.

Then there are others, who, contemplating the making of large Dags for gallery exhibition, seek to eliminate as much of these surface lines as possible. In the 19th Century these were the Daguerreotypists who used large steam powered belt polishers. With these devices the time and effort to achieve the best polishing was greatly reduced.

Several modern practitioners choose a Random orbital polisher with variable speed adjustment, such as the Bosch model 3725DEVS. What ever polisher you choose, it must have random orbital motion. A “round” polisher with circular motion won’t do.

The polisher should be set it at the lowest possible operating speed. When polishing dry with powdered rouge you may get some haze after prolonged polishing. This haze will be removed when the plate is subsequently polished with lampblack. Daguerreotype plates thus polished react more evenly to iodine fumes producing a more uniform coating. See the “polishing silver” topic for more details.

Random orbital polishers should be equipped with some sort of sponge applicator pads such as the Bosch model R5013. These pads attach to most 5inch Random orbital polishers via a hook and eye (Velcro) pad on the back. The front is a rigid polyfoam pad which can be covered with soft buckskin or velvet by sewing it to the pad with heavy thread. Some Daguerreotypists use this system for preliminary wet polishing of Dag plates using a series of fine submicron sized alumina powders with liquid carriers such as olive oil or xylene to achieve the best polish. I prefer to use a high speed jeweler’s wheel polisher to remove the deeper scratches. I follow this up with a Random Orbital polish with rouge, and then lampblack, and finally a buff with a clean pad to remove all polishing powders. When the velvet gets too dirty cut it off the pad, throw it out and replace it with new velvet. Velvet is not water washable and you’ll never the grit out. If the pads are soft enough and the polishing agent fine enough there will be no visible lines, therefore no problems viewing your Dags regardless of the angle. If you can see lines, then you need to polish more with a finer polishing agent. If you still see lines, then you may be applying too much pressure on the polisher.

[photolytic]

If Wendy’s had sold Bromine, Clara Peller, the old lady in their commercials, would have asked "Where’s the Bromine". ” title=”Confused” />

[photolytic]

In 2009 I’m thinking of letting our Governor of Illinois critique my latest Dags in his own bleeping way.
That should relieve you of another onerous responsibility.

[photolytic]

2008 must also be the first year anyone had to sprinkle sulfur on Dags to make them look older. ” title=”Razz” />

[photolytic]

Yes XRF machines are too expensive. However you can weigh the plate before and after the plating.
A mil of silver (25 microns) on a whole plate weighs 9.5 grams. An easy assay for a cheap digital balance.
If you stop out the back of the plate with platers tape or lacquer you can restrict the plating to the front only.
Similarly a mil of silver on a quarter plate weighs 2.4 grams.
You can do the math from there.

This will give you the average silver thickness. Due to what the platers call the "dog bone" effect the silver is always thickest on the edges of the plate and thinner near the center. Unfortunately that is where you really want it so it, so it’s best to apply a little more silver if you intend to reuse the plate
That blue overcoat is only 2 microns thick so it will be removed by all but the lightest rouge buffing and will have no effect on reuse of the plate.

[photolytic]

Larry,

If I may be permitted a bad Daguerreian pun here it sounds as if you’ve been spinning your wheels.

High speed rotary polishers are fine for getting off lots of material but they do a lousy job of getting out the fine scratches. Regardless of the softness of the buffing wheels or the fineness of the polishing agent they tend to leave a lot of polishing lines on what looks like a mirror finish. Yes, I’ve even tried the chamois leather buffing wheels and they tend to scratch also.

Charlie Schreiner once said that applying too much pressure on the rotary buffer actually gouged out particles of silver, creating pits on the surface, and I agree with him. I have found that repeated passes on the rotary buffer, applying less pressure with each pass, reduces the tendency to pit the surface.

I used to rely on hand buffing to complete the finishing job but while it does remove many of the fine scratches created by the rotary buffer, fine linear scratches remain. I’ve tried soft "Brain tanned", buckskin pads but they scratched too. I’ve even tried space age, nanometer size, rouge developed for solid rocket fuels, but the particles were so small (3 nanometers) that they absorbed water from the air, smearing the plates.

After seeing Irving Pobboravsky polish his plates, I finally started using a Random orbital buffer.
On July 15 under the "polishing silver" I posted the following;

Most Daggers use Bosch model R5013 5" sponge applicator pads currently available at toolsforless.com for $11.80/each. They attach to most 5inch Random orbital polishers via a hook and eye (Velcro) pad on the back. The front is a rigid polyfoam pad. For fine polishing, I cover the pad with velvet by sewing it to the pad with heavy thread. Some use this system for preliminary wet polishing of Dag plates with fine alumina powder. I prefer to use a high speed jeweler’s wheel polisher to remove the deeper scratches. I follow this up with a Random Orbital polish with rouge, and then lampblack, and finally a buff with a clean pad to remove all polishing powders.
When the velvet gets too dirty cut it off the pad and throw it out.
Velvet is not water washable and you’ll never the grit out.
A good source of silk velvet is http://www.thaisilks.com. They sell 54 inch wide bolts of natural white, 18% silk/ 82% rayon velvet for $17.90/ yard which works well. Alternately they also have 100% silk velvet, 54 inches wide for $36/yard.photolytic

I know it is frustrating when you have a limited amount of time to devote to your Dagging, but even some of the most experienced modern Daguerreotypists have said that their Dags come out perfect only about 30% of the time. Only by repeated attempts to perfect your plates will you learn what your true potential is.

[photolytic]

Larry,

Also, there were a lot of very tiny balls of mercury on the surface; I would imagine that was caused by leaving it in for 18 hours under vacuum. I assume this is the same as when left in the heated apparatus too long. The mercury balls did not appear attached as they would roll around on the surface in the fixer

Be careful not to let these settle on the plate surface or they with form a large white amalgam spot which requires more buffing to remove. If not completely removed they will leave a dark spot on the next image.

For my set up I do have one of the plastic vacuum desiccators with a very old scientific pump that has a pulley and a separate motor. The vacuum gauge is attached to the pump, but I did do a test last night and it held 27" of vacuum for 4 hours with out a drop in vacuum. When I get a chance Ill get some more plumbing and set the gauge inline for more accurate readings.

I assume that you turned the pump off during the 4 hour interval

In order to get light exposure during bromine fuming is it possible to use a clear glass/plexi bromine box? or is it best to expose it to light after the bromine step and before the final iodine? I am still a ways off from bromine and I was planning on building new sensitizing boxes, mine are from when I first started and are a poor design, I have learned much in the last few years.

We’re talking brief exposure to low levels of 40w incandescent light here,
It is best to use an ordinary opaque wooden box and expose the plate for 5-10 seconds at a time during the color inspection period of the fuming process.

Is it necessary to burn off the mercury before re-polishing? I was thinking it might interfere with the process or is it just not necessary and will be eliminated with polishing?

Not unless you get mercury amalgam spots from those balls of mercury.
Just wipe the image away with a soft tissue and buff the plate in your usual way.
If you see any ghost images from the previous use before or during the next fuming step repeat the buffing procedure. Generally speaking it takes more rigorous buffing to restore a used plate then it does to buff a virgin plate, assuming the new plate had a smooth surface to begin with.
If you do decide to "burn" the plate be sure to wipe the image off with a tissue first.
Burning the plate hardens the image, making it more resistant to removal.

Good luck,
John

[Author]

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