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Hi Irv, no not assuming your questioning the design at all, I’m just detailing the design in my thinking aloud mode (I seem to be thinking about the mercury pots day and night) as am keen to explain whats going into it.

Affordable is a relative term, this is a custom made item with scarce availability, in a small market and given its coverage of all the main formats it is a once in a lifetime purchase. Spread the cost over even a few years and I think it represents a good investment. Being so robust with a small amount of easily replaceable parts it will have excellent resale as well. There is much equipment needed for this process and some might spend more on a large format camera and lens. With other equipment alternative low cost options can be achieved but with a mercury pot I think there are only safe and unsafe options. The alcohol lamp heated version will be much cheaper and hopefully a 4×5″ version will be even cheaper still.

Through facebook I hear from a lot of artists in the wider alternative photography genre who are looking to take up the daguerreotype. With the ImageObject event we aim to give daguerreotypists a conduit to the photo art market and get more artists making daguerreotypes. This mercury pot project hopefully will help with the latter and artists participating in the ImageObject event and also selling their artworks through the online store have an opportunity to recoup on their investment.

best
A.

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Actually the 1mm thick tube that the temperature sensor sits in, is sealed on the end that is inside the pot. That is to say there is only one opening in the pot and that is the top where the plate is placed. That is covered by a closed cell foam gasket and then the one piece dark slide assembly. It is actually three pieces of hdpe cnc machined for the 1mm thick stainless steel dark slides and the 8×10 plate seat. It is bolted together and with silicone sealant at the borders, the dark slides have stops on them to prevent them being fully withdrawn. I am adding walls to the sides to prevent air rushing around the heating area as I have found the fume hood makes it cool like a air cooled engine. Also I’m lagging the inverted pyramid above the heating element area to help the temperature stabilise quicker.

My intention to offer a low cost pot has been thwarted by the cost of mechanical and heat engineering, the first pots I have made and sold have actually costed at least as much to make as I sold them. That has been a research and development cost to the project though – the redoing of things till the formula is right. With the electrical heat engineering the cost has doubled from where I started to the final design I am using in the next 4 pots. In that the heat controller box is separate from the pot and the heat elements removable. To offer a low cost version I will sell just the pot with a alcohol lamp and a battery powered polder temperature thermometer and since the pot will have the mounts for the electric heat assembly, the latter can always be purchased later on.
When the full version is to be heated by alcohol lamp in the absence of electricity the temperature sensor for the electric heat setup has to be removed and replaced with the sensor probe of a battery powered polder, to monitor the mercury temperature.
I do want to offer a smaller version – up to 4×5″ in plate format but this will depend on how much less of a cost the engineer sees in the size difference (yes some less material but otherwise its the same amount of work), but fingers crossed.

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Hi Irv, yes I’ve always used a thickly sealed container for my Third plate pot and when designing this one I could see another advantage in not having a single post suspending the pot – the footprint is uniform to the height and minimal to the maximum format of the pot. Still searching for the plastic container thats closest to the size though.
The costs have gone up and up on the pot from what I had been aiming for and I am awaiting the final engineering bill for the batch of four of the upgraded design so there is no surprises in the costs for each unit.

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This year I have been working on developing a design for a mercury pot to be made available commercially, which I will be launching in the ImageObject.com online store quite soon. The design is based around the C19th model of the inverted pyramid, which offers best surface for the condensing mercury to drain back down into the reservoir.
I have had a inverted pyramid mercury pot (alcohol lamp heated) since 2008 and have found no difficulty in removing the mercury for filtering or storage and question the need for a removable mercury cup. I believe there is an issue with these with the threaded seal where mercury can gain egress which is an unnecessary risk. A straight out inverted pyramid provides a unrestricted flow for the mercury to flow back down to the reservoir which the interface of a circular removable cup and inverted pyramid inhibits.  With the single piece dark slide assembly removed I’ve alwsy found it quite easy to pour the mercury out into a smaller vessel for filtering or storage.

The pots I have had made are stainless steel with a black heat resistant paint on the interior, which allows easy detection of where mercury droplets are present in the pot (had this on the 2008 pot from Jerry Spagnoli’s practice). The metal to avoid in mercury pot construction is of course aluminium, as mercury can dissolve it.

The pots I have made so far this year have had a static frame to give no movement in the pot (see attached image). I found with my 2008 model which was on a single post, that it could bounce a little and great care was needed to prevent this and mercury droplet bouncing up to hit the plate.
The current batch of 4 pots I am having made by my engineer varies this design with a telescoping of the legs to two fixed height settings (see google sketch up of the basic design). The shorter height is for use with the removable electronic heat elements which are controlled by a stand alone controller box (the previous design had the controller attached to the pot frame. The taller height is for when the pot is heated by alcohol lamp, in the absence of access to mains power.

The max format size of the pot is 8×10, I favour whole plate as a max size for daguerreotypes due to the reflection properties of larger plates but aimed for 8×10 as it allows for the developing of two half plates simultaneously , which is a difficult logistic if the max aperture is whole plate.  The facility to prepare, shoot and develop 2 plates at a time seemed a significant economy of operation to aim for. Attached is an image of the format reduction frames for the pot.

Differing from my 2008 smaller pot this one with a larger amount of steel displaces the heat more and moving beyond alcohol lamp heating has taken some testing, trial and error to achieve the right formula of apparatus to deliver a consistently and stably heated pot.  Attaining the right sort of heating element and digital controller for your design of mercury pot can be difficult.

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Filtering the mercury is easy to do – make a funnel by taping and coiling a piece of paper at a angle, where the opening at the base is very small. Pour the mercury into the funnel over a suitable container. The oxides on the surface will get caught on the sides of the paper funnel and the cleaned mercury will pass through

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The best velvet I have found for buffing and also for the velvet pinch pad retainers in my daguerreotype cases is a short nap 100% cotton velvet made in India. Its relatively cheap and I bought a whole bolt of it in a fabric store. I don’t think its necessary to spend a lot on german silk velvets.

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So the research mentioned here, which paints a pretty doom and gloom viewpoint to the permanence of Daguerreotypes, has had a counter viewpoint presented in the comments to a earlier bit of online coverage to it, by Mike Robinson – http://britishphotohistory.ning.com/profiles/blogs/nano-scientists-attempt-to-save-disintegrating-artworks

The comment by Mike Robinson:

“The recent article in the Scientific American magazine paints a picture of doom and destruction for daguerreian art pieces. Of course this is disconcerting for collectors and institutions that have significant investment in these beautiful objects. The author implies that degradation surrounding some Southworth and Hawes daguerreotypes in the Young America exhibition can be applied to all daguerreotypes when he writes “The vanishing images suggested that any daguerreotype could spontaneously crumble.” This sky-is-falling statement in my opinion does not represent the majority of daguerreotypes.
Lets review this issue.
Approximately 160 Southworth and Hawes daguerreotypes were exhibited over two years at three institutions. Five plates changed significantly with an obscuring white haze, and supposedly 25 plates changed slightly. The majority of the plates did not change at all.
From personal experience I can tell you that I have 19th century daguerreotypes as well as my own daguerreotypes that have been on continuous display on my studio for 10+ years with no sign of change. This is my argument against the claim that daguerreotypes are light sensitive.
What every collector or institution must know is Southworth and Hawes plates have a very unique storage history contrary to the norm. The great majority of S&H images that remain were plates retained by the studio stored completely unsealed in plate boxes. They were sold in this condition through Holman’s bookshop in the 1930’s. and early 40’s. As they migrated to private collectors and institutions they were sealed using what were thought of at the time to be proper conservation materials. A typical preservation package used by the George Eastman House from the mid-1970’s to 1999 consisted of 4-ply buffered board with a paper binding tape, and a buffered die cut paper mat separating the plate from the glass. The buffering agent is 3% calcium carbonate to provide an alkali reserve of ph 8.5.
A significant case in point. In 1999, a trove of Southworth and Hawes daguerreotypes were discovered in the garage of David Feigenbaum after his death. A team of conservation professionals from the George Eastman House were asked to prepare the plates for auction at Sotheby’s. Over 200 plates were housed in the materials described above. A collector who purchased a Southworth and Hawes daguerreotype from the David Feigenbaum sale brought it to me to replace the conservation housing with an 19th century brass mat, preserver and case. I retained the die-cut buffered mat and backing board. Soon after, I made a daguerreotype that I felt wasn’t good enough to frame in my own passe-partout housing design, but I wanted to preserve it as I had made it in collaboration with my friend Irv Pobboravsky. I placed the daguerreotype behind glass using the die-cut mat I retained from the Feigenbaum sale held together with spring clips and placed it in a zip-lock back. It was stored in the dark for approximately four years. It now has a very definite obscuring white haze adjacent to the mat. While this is not a scientific experiment, it does provide a significant observation and cause to question if the housing materials are contributing to the deterioration of the plates.
I have experienced the “white haze” phenomena on other of my contemporary images as well as on 19th century images that have been in contact with buffered board. What is good for the conservation of paper, ie alkaline buffering, is not necessarily good for daguerreotypes.
In reviewing the conservation efforts for the Young America Exhibition I learned that plates were not removed from their buffered mat board and die cut preservation packages. These were placed intact into extremely well sealed secondary housings incorporating shallow copper pans to act as pollutant scavengers. A complete overview of the conservation for this exhibition can be found here.
http://notesonphotographs.org/images/1/1e/Young_America_design_for_…
If the buffered materials are a co-factor in the formation of “white-haze” deterioration it would explain why even with the best intentioned conservation, some plates still changed during exhibition. A questionable environment was enclosed within a stable one.
This remains to be explored and I hope to soon analyze the plate and mat from my example. I present this scenario as a possible alternative and/or co-factor to the silver-chloride scenario presented in the Scientific American article.
In closing, I would say that daguerreotypes are among the most stable of photographic objects providing the housings are intact to prevent atmospheric pollutants from reacting with the silver surface and that the housings themselves are not contributing to the problem. The nature of the mechanism of deterioration particular to a small percentage of Southworth and Hawes daguerreotypes is not yet fully understood. The findings reported in the Scientific American article should not prevent us from exhibiting, collecting or enjoying these amazing photographs. It is prudent, as has been shown by the Young America exhibition, to accurately document any daguerreotype intended for exhibition and carefully monitor it at regular intervals to note any changes.
sincerely,
Mike Robinson
Daguerreian Artist
President of the Daguerreian Society”

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Hi Marc, the shipping cost will depend on the size and weight artwork packaged up ready to ship. There is no extra cost by us for sending it to you, so you can work out the cost by looking at the website of fed-ex or UPS in the united states. We will just be packing up the artworks for return in the packaging that they arrive in, from the artists.
regards,
Alan.

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Hi Marc

The artist must cover the costs of sending the artworks to and from the exhibit. The artworks will be received by the Center for Alternative Photography and Cdags.org admins will be installing the show and will be sending them back to the artist, but the artist must pay for the shipping/postage.

regards

Alan

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Just a reminder that its only 2 weeks to till submissions are due to close. There is a very large amount of folk saying they will be submitting but leaving it till the last minute – make a admins life less hectic – Submit now! 🙂

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Hi Dafna, there is another option to avoid the white walled gallery space, which is internally lit display cabinets. I had 5 made that have led side lighting. THis is much better than the Daguerreian society version which had a UV tube light in the top of the cabinet (also the exhibit in Bry Sur Marne in 2009 had this too) as you don't see the light source in the reflection. This is because the underside of the top of the cabinet is covered in black velvet and the daguerreotypes sit on a 45 degree angle underneath this. I had these cabinets made for the usually adverse lighting conditions of art gallery spaces. The led lights provide a cold light source so the cabinet doesn't heat up, another advantage is that you can get the dark reflection looking at the plate from far away to up close to the cabinet.

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Just a note to say the forum is having difficulties accepting image attachements, so I have manually loading these images for Jereon.

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Hi Ty

Good to hear of the interest in your work and the genre as a whole. Iodine eats fairly rapidly through wood so unless there is a glass on glass seal the boxes and their metal hinges are going to not last long. Also if the wood gets laden with iodine then controlling the amount of exposure to the fumes gets even less precise. Mike Robinson did a nice set of boxes in the 19th century french style – http://www.cdags.org/2011/07/20/french-revival/ – which used a square glass dish made of glass sheets glued together, which makes finding the right size dish not a problem.

Thanks for bearing with us

-Alan.

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The plate looks to have uneven buffing, some areas are more polished so react with the iodine more. Try to create more even buffing by keeping hte plate parallel to your polishing surface

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Nice looking fuming box, i had one similar once that i had to modify just slightly – the semi circular area to lift the plate – it let the iodine flow stronger over that part of the edge of the plate and gave uneven sensitization, so i filled it in and problem solved. Attached is an image of the box open, back when I used cotton wool to even the fumes. Its the underside of where the plate sits but you can see the semi circular part filled in. Also has a format reduction frame sitting in there, which makes it look a bit cluttered

 

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that video is a few years old, here’s the interior of my current trailer darkroom, on the wall is the blue transformer for the orbital sander – it is available speed one which is important for getting the right polishing action. Underneath the bench is my buffing paddle warmer. Of course if I make it to whole plate the whole setup is going to be a bit challenged by the space but where there’s a will there’s a way.

 

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Oops sorry, try now

The plate box runners that keep the plate spaced are made of a hardened dense foam material that I had cut on a cnc router, by a business I used when living in Ireland, so basically a one off. I am planning to make whole plate boxes but will cut material with my precision table saw to make the grooves for that. The yellow stuff in the picture was called foam-X or something.

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I have a technique that is a bit upside down, but it works for me. I call it linear orbital polishing – I use orbital sander on a upturned buffing paddle. The plate is held to a acrylic sheet that has slight grooves near the sheet edge where strips of double sided tape sit – can be seen at http://www.cdags.org/wp-content/uploads/dsc01621.jpg – tech gallery on plate boxes.

A video showing it in use can be seen at: http://www.cdags.org/dagforum/images/attachments/linearorbital1.MPG

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What is the white band in the image on the left hand side? It reminds me of a accidental case of hyper-sensitizing I did to a becquerel plate – the white band at the top of the image was from a darkslide with a loose slide cover that I accidentally moved up and gave the plate a blast of sunlight – I can’t remember if it was pre or post exposure. The resulting plate had the whitest whites of all my becq. plates. It may not relate to your plate but there are many things that could explain the proper tone – correct sensitization exposure, image exposure, polish and development not least among them

 

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Some daguerreotypes up on ebay by Rob McElroy:

 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/FULL-PLATE-DAGUERREOTYPE-Hibiscus-No-1-by-Rob-McElroy-2011-/290647002189?pt=Art_Photo_Images&hash=item43abe94c4d

 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/FULL-PLATE-daguerreotype-Another-World-modern-by-Rob-McElroy-2011-/290627772019?pt=Art_Photo_Images&hash=item43aac3de73#ht_2057wt_1340

 

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Three framed 4×5 daguerreotypes are up on ebay by Rob McElroy:

 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=290652119721

 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=290654503338

 

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As a community website we welcome input from all, espicially experienced practioners. Our aim from the beggining was to avoid the example of newdags.com which was static, limited and non inclusive. If you see an error or information that is wrong it would be helpful to point it out to us, as we are looking to collate and grow the resources not dictate them. Its a large site so you need to be specific about where an error is – a url address and description.

I can’t see any reference in the resources section to a fixer formula but the wiki does have a page which iterates Irv’s formula.

Bear in mind the wiki is open to editing to anyone who signs up, its our hope that people will contribute.

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Your development time is too hot and too quick, try extending your development time as well as dropping your temp to 70 deg C, you need to find a point of development time/temp for the sensitization and exposure of your plates that doesn’t rely on over development. Nice looking plates otherwise, congrats.

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I have just bought my tickets to travel to the states at the time of the symposium, so cdags.org will have official admin representation at the symposium! I am making the trip to more to see fellow Daguerriean and friend Harvey Zucker in NYC but figured I might as well attend the gathering as well. See you all there.

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1) 1/3rd pl. (3.75 x 4.25″)

2) No

3) No

4) 1/6th plate, I have a slightly better lens for my 1/6th plate camera.

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