[Andy Stockton]

I am going to revive this topic, as we have received two inquiries in the past two days asking “Do you know who is going to Bry and when they will be there?”.

People are making their travel plans for Bry. If you are going, would you please share your travel dates here?

The only information I have so far:

Jerry Spagnoli is listed in the conference material as giving demonstrations on Sep 18th and 19th.

Tita Young advised me that she and her husband Tom are planning on being there the nights of Sept. 17, 18, and 19.

I will not be attending.

[Andy Stockton]

I often find it a little startling when I discover something from “history” alive and well and on to new things. Thanks for telling your story. I have never done astrophotography of any kind, but find the images beautiful. For those of you with more experience I have two questions

1) Given the relatively long exposure times, is a motorized telescope that tracks the object a requirement?

2) Are any of these images done with the Becquerel process or are they always I/Br/HG?

[Andy Stockton]

Hi Paul – welcome to the group. No need to just lurk. I’m sure your unique experiences will bring interest to the discussions. The editors of CDags are very interested in promoting lively discussions from many different points of view. Masters and beginners and everyone in between are all welcome,

[Andy Stockton]

Post as often as you like Corey. One of the main points of the CDags site is to share our excitement about making daguerreotypes.

[Andy Stockton]

Thanks for posting Ron and good luck with your continuing efforts. There are many current artists in the forum and most are very generous with their help for beginners. Be sure to look through what is already there. Perhaps you will post more about the world of collecting. I know that some questions have come up about what can be done to attract more collectors to contemporary work. The bulk of them seem only interested in antiques. The forum has a theme for such discussions, “Collecting, Preserving, and Restoring Daguerreotypes”. There is also a gallery of daguerreotypes that have been bought by collectors.

[Andy Stockton]

Welcome to the group Tyler. As a site editor and a fellow beginner I am glad you found us. Many of us share the attractions that have led you to daguerreotypes. They are a challenging medium to learn, but well worth the effort. I very much encourage you to share you enthusiasm, your questions and your discoveries with the group. Visit the forum and have at it. When they have time and inclination to speak the experienced members here dispense incredibly helpful information, and looking at their galleries (which are only a digital shadow of the real thing) can be very inspiring.

[Andy Stockton]

Hi Corey-

Care to share what you had done and some idea of the prices and turn-around?

Thanks in advance.

[Andy Stockton]

I am away from my “lab” for the next few days, but will give your suggestion a try when I get back. What are ROB pads? I wasn’t sure what the abbreviaton meant. Thanks much for the feedback.

[Andy Stockton]

Hi Irv-

I don’t have any preparation info for the reference plate. It was produced by Jerry Spagnoli and given by him to Alan Bekhuis who loaned it to me as an exemplar. From the holes in the copper I would say it was electroplated, and the silver layer looks to be substantial. Beyond that I couldn’t say.

My prep at this point is as follows:

1 )Starting with a new Mike Robinson clad plate

2 ) Mount plate on acrylic sheet with double sided tape (There is a separate sheet for each step in the polishing process)

3 ) Spritz plate with 70% ethyly alcohol

4 ) Using ROS – sand for 2 minutes with 15 Micron 3M polishing paper

5 ) Detach and wipe plate front and back with a new cotton ball

6 ) Mount plate on next acrylic sheet

7 ) Dispense 25 cent size blob of 3 micron Aluminum Oxide slurry onto plate

8 ) ROS for 5 minutes (Bare foam polishing pad/”reserved” for each grit size. Pad is vacuumed clean and stored in a zip lock bag after use. It is also vacuumed prior to next use. Fresh paper towel is held over hose end to prevent cross contamination).

9 ) Rinse x2 with distilled H2O wipe with fresh cotton each time

10) repeat 6-9 with 0.3 micron aluminum oxide slurry

11) repeat 6-8 with 0.05 micron aluminum oxide slurry

12) Rinse x3 with distilled H2O wipe with fresh cotton each time

13) “Push” water off plate with blow dryer and blow till dry.

14) Pat Rouge powder onto freshly brushed ultrasuede buffing stick

15) Hold plate with suction tool and polish 100 strokes x4 – once in each direction ending so that direction is same as horizon of image.

16) Using rubber bulb blower clear rouge from front of plate

17) Using dry cotton ball remove rouge from back of plate

18) Repeat 14-17 using lampblack

I end up with a nice scratch-free surface with a “good” mirror look, but it is very slightly hazy and the difference is very noticeable when held next to my reference plate.

I welcome any and all comments. It seems that each practitioner has (different) favorite methods, but anything offered about what you think is right OR wrong about my approach will be gratefully received.

Andy

[Andy Stockton]

Thanks Irv. A simple, elegant test. Very helpful.

I have been working away on my silver polishing and am getting closer to being satisfied with what I can produce. My current barrier is what I can only describe as “haze”. Starting with one of Mike Robinson’s clad plates, I end up with a surface that seems a good mirror and free of any visible scratches. However I have a plate right now that is on loan to me that was polished by someone most would consider at the top of the profession. When I compare that one to mine, the “master” plate is clearly far more brilliant than mine. Mine displays a kind of haze. I have been working on various step timings, and also on lightening my pressure at final stages, and have a few other ideas to try, but nothing has worked yet.

Irv, I haven’t forgotten your thoughtful admonishment to stop worrying so much about perfect plates and to get busy on sensitizing and figuring out exposure, but I do want to get a consistent plate to base my next steps on.

I would be curious to hear any thoughts on “haze” from any practitioners.

---

And to phuphuphnik – I too like photolytic would love to hear more about your plate manufacturing methods. Plates are a core challenge to all practitioners, I am always interested in hearing about alternatives.

Andy

[Andy Stockton]

This is a link to the most complete chart I have ever found showing the chemical resistance of various forms of plastic. Note that there are several kinds of flourinated plasics besides PTFE, but it can be difficult to know what you are getting without very specific information from a manufacturer.

http://k-mac-plastics.net/chemical-large.htm

I hadn’t thought about using the foam. You could embed the bottle in another container and that would protect it, but it also might make it rather awkward to pour. The protective plastic I was thinking of was similar to a product they sell for dipping tool handles in. Here is the link for the company that has the clear version:

http://www.caswellplating.com/aids/plastidip.html

I have also looked at this, it might be tougher:

http://webtronics.stores.yahoo.net/hiteepenandp.html

and finally I also saw this bottle for storing pesticides:

http://www.freundcontainer.com/product.asp?splid=SPLID02&pn=3319B01&cn=44&bhcd2=1244780419

Alan’s suggestion of storage in small quantities is excellent, as are Rob’s general cautions. It is really better to store it in a locked cabinet outdoors if at all possible. If you must bring it into your home, decant the amount you need and no more, it is very nasty stuff. If you do spill some clear out, opening doors and windows as you go. It will dissapate with sufficient air exchange. It can be handled safely, but needs a great deal of respect to avoid permanent lung damage.

[Andy Stockton]

Wow. Thanks for the info. Definitely food for thought. Anything that reduces the chance of stray markings on the dag surface seems worth a try.

[Andy Stockton]

Thanks for the feedback. If you decide it is failing please let us/me know if you have a chance. I’m trying to build up these snippets of safety information to eventually add to the Wiki.

My bromine is still sitting in its’ original glass bottle with a phenolic cap sealed with some kind of blue heat shrink tape around the threads. I haven’t opened it as I have no purpose for bromine yet. I suspect it has a teflon cap liner but do not know. The locked storage area is outside the house. So far no blistering or other signs of failure.

One of the things I am investigating is a clear plastic dip for glass bottles to shield them from breakage. It would help remove one of the objections of using glass which still seems to be the only substance used to make bottles that is 100% bromine proof. It wouldn’t help you if it did shatter, but I wonder if a thick enough coat would prevent breakage when dropped from normal heights?

[Andy Stockton]

Hey Eric. I was looking back through some old posts and noticed this one. You have had the PTFE bottle for a year and I was wondering how it held up? Did it turn out to be a workable container?

[Andy Stockton]

Larry – Thanks so much for sharing your work and the many supporting details as well. Very instructive. Doing portraits in becquerel seems pretty challenging, and one in 1/2 plate size as well!

I am intrigued by your comment about gilding in the microwave. Would you be willing to share some more details?

[Andy Stockton]

Welcome aboard Brigitte. It is a pleasure to have a Daguerre family member grace our pages. I am not sure who might be in the So Cal area, but if anyone is they will likely chime in. If you ever get up to the Bay Area Eric Mertens gives individual lessons. He has a gallery on this site and also can be found at theDagLab.com.

If you can afford a trip to Paris and want a once in a lifetime experience, go take a class with Jerry Spagnoli in Bry France this fall. Jerry is a world-class practitioner and you can celebrate the 170th anniversary of the announcement of the daguerreian process and see your great-great-great uncle’s home. I am sure they would love to have you.

More info here:

http://www.cdags.org/?p=2056

[Andy Stockton]

I have been using acylic plastic 14″x14″ as the polishing mount along with the double sticky tape method. It seems to hold up fairly well although I have not been using it very long either. I like the plastic because it is lightweight and not a breakage risk.

I have a separate sheet for each grit size. You still need to clean it between uses even if you do several plates in a row of one grit size because the plastic has to be reasonably clean and dry for the tape to adhere. By using one polishing mount per grit I don’t have to be as fanatic about cleaning however. You do save some time when doing a “production run” because you keep the same media on the ROS. I also have one Bosch foam pad for each Micron size.

I’m still investigating the various micron-grade papers available as well as using some graded alumina slurry I found from one supplier. The papers make somewhat less mess but I really have trouble deciding when a given piece of polishing paper has worn out. With the slurry I get fresh media each time. I haven’t yet worked out the costs exactly, but I think the slurry is cheaper. I also think it is just made up of water and graded alumina (since it separates into a clear liquid layer and a white layer after being left undisturbed for a while). My sense is that the slurry is cheaper – even pre-mixed.

The other thing I keep thinking about is lapping equipment – used by lapidaries and lens makers. They achieve some pretty fantastic polish on stone and glass and it would be a “set-and-forget” type process. Have you ever heard of anyone trying that? There are both rotary and vibratory laps.

supphaman – re the etcher’s plates, it sounds like a good idea but I haven’t been able to find it in the sizes I want. Do you cut your own?

[Andy Stockton]

Irv – thank you. This is extremely helpful to me and I’m sure it will benefit many others.

Two questions:

1) How meticulous do you get in cleaning the plate between polishing steps? Wiping? Rinsing? Mounting the plate on a holder/surface reserved only for the grit in use each time? This is what seems to be the most time consuming part of the process as I am doing it now and maybe I am wasting effort.

2) Have you tried mounting all the various polishing papers directly to the ROS backing plate? Does using PSA on foam provide a distinct advantage?

Thanks again.

[Andy Stockton]

Thanks Irv. I’m glad I didn’t throw away the polishing paper remnants, using them that way didn’t occur to me.

Here is a roundup of the PSA & Hook-n-Loop micron polishing disks I found on Hillas. There was some catalog copy that seemed to indicate they had additional micron size choices, but I couldn’t find them all. The minimum order quantities are somewhat large in some of the sizes.

I’m also still wondering what methods people are using to polish copper? Do you use these papers or are there other methods that are better? I also find that I have a hard time figuring out how often to change disks. The cutting/polishing action tapers off so slowly with use.

PSA

3 mic – 5″ PSA $0.62×500=$310.00

9 mic – 5″ PSA $0.62×500=$310.00

15 mic – 5″ PSA $0.62×500=$310.00

30 mic – 5″ PSA $0.62×500=$310.00

Hookit II – Hook and Loop

1 mic – 5″ Hookit II $0.71×500=$355.00

3 mic – 5″ Hookit II $0.71×100=$71.00

9 mic – 5″ Hookit II $0.71×100=$71.00

15 mic – 5″ Hookit II $0.71×100=$71.00

30 mic – 5″ Hookit II $0.71×100=$71.00

And Jon – The Ridgid specs are certainly interesting, how do the prices compare?

[Andy Stockton]

p.s. I did call the company and the quantities that come up are minimum orders as these items are evidently made up on a custom basis from bulk materials.

[Andy Stockton]

Using the product numbers Irv provided I was able to come up with this supplier:

286Q – 3M Wetordry Polishing Paper Discs 1, 2, 3 and 9 micron grades 5″ Hook & Loop

486Q – 3M Wetordry Polishing Paper Discs 15 and 30 micron grades 5″ Hook & Loop

They also have this item which I have not seen before:

3M 968M – 3M Hookit II Polishing Film 968M Discs — Comprised of resilient fibers coated onto a polyester film backing, this non-abrasive disc is usually used as a carrier for a polishing compound. For use in plastic repair and solid surface finishing.

In PSA they seem to have 3 and 9 micron

I couldn’t find the other micron grades in PSA before I ran out of time this morning. This is the link to all their 3M PSA polishing and lapping discs however.

I will also mention that when you bring up a product on the site it appears to show a minimum order of 100 units. I did test however and the system will accept a lesser quantity. I have not made an actual order yet.

[Andy Stockton]

Hi Race-

I got mine from an outfit called Plumber’s Surplus [Link to the product page], but if you search “Bosch RS013” on Google you will find various sources. It is a “Sponge Applicator Pad” They also make an RS014 “Buffing Pad”, but I don’t know what the difference is. The RS013 is fairly firm.

Re the 3-M polishing papers, I have never found round hook-and-loop versions, so I just sprayed some photo mounting adhesive on a cheap 5″ hook-and-loop piece of fine grit sandpaper and used that. It worked ok but is kind of a fuss to make. You also only can cut two round pieces out of each sheet with a lot of waste left over. I would be happy to find a better solution.

[Andy Stockton]

If you ever have them make a new batch maybe you could offer some for sale. I would buy some.

[Andy Stockton]

I suppose it could backfire too if the plater had a horrible experience with a daguerreotypist and their “fussy little jobs”. 😆

[Andy Stockton]

So those of you using alcohol are finding 100% solutions? What I find at the drugstore is usually 70% although you can sometimes find 90% solutions. The ethanol also has been “denatured” (made poisonous) by the addition of some methanol. So do the less pure solutions matter?

[Author]

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