[Andy Stockton]

Neither IO nor CDags are dead – just another event/site maintained by busy volunteers. It would be nice to revive more conversations however. Let us know what you are up to – If you post the first dag for 2016 you can expect applause and to have your dag featured on the front page. 🙂 Happy New Year!

[Andy Stockton]

Nawagi-

Thanks for your post on safe chemical handling. Very comprehensive and the best we have ever had posted on CDags. Anyone wishing to work with Daguerreotypes would do well to copy your meticulous approach.

I wonder if you could share your source of the PTFE lid for a Mason jar? I had not run across that before. Also – since it sounds like you are using your truck as a mobile darkroom – can you share any method you use to stabilize the Mason jar inside of the paint can?

Andy

[Andy Stockton]

Welcome Jonathan – lots of good material here to get you started. Feel free to post questions in the forums, conversation can be slow at times, but there have been quite a number of interesting threads.

[Andy Stockton]

Dan’s original past says “lick the image with the flame from a IMAP gas torch”. Is that a reference to a MAPP gas torch? The video doesn’t show the torch fully. If it is the original MAPP gas (now unavailable) it not only burns much hotter than propane, it also contains acetylene which reacts with mercury, silver and copper if I remember correctly. If it is the newer MAPP/PRO substitute, it does burn a bit hotter than propane but contains no acetylene. Not sure if any of that is a factor in reproducing the effect of course but I was wondering about it.

Dan – what kind of torch did you use?

[Andy Stockton]

Hi Jason-

Your post intrigued me and I have been looking around some too. I agree – so far there doesn’t seem to be much.
If anyone has any journal copies and would lend them to me for scanning, I would be happy to do that and put them on the site. I will also keep hunting.

Andy

[Andy Stockton]

For a small box just drill a blind hole into the wood on each side and inset a rare earth magnet into the holes with a dab of glue. Make sure you pay attention to the direction of the poles and it holds just fine. I’ve bought several times from these folks:

http://www.magnet4less.com/

Kind of a goofy website, but they have good prices and the products have been accurately described. I’ve used these for latching:

http://www.magnet4less.com/product_info.php?products_id=90

For cabinet latches of various kinds here is a site that aggregates links:

http://www.thewoodworkingcatalog.com/hardware.html

[Andy Stockton]

Hi Tanner- Welcome to the site. The first place to start, if you haven’t found it already is the Resources Page. You will find many hours of instructive reading there.

[Andy Stockton]

In industrial settings activated charcoal impregnated with sulfur compounds is used to trap mercury and prevent release into the atmosphere. The problem in a home setting using this approach is two-fold. First, there is no way to measure if the adsorbent material has reached capacity and is no longer functioning, and second, the used activated charcoal has to be disposed of as toxic waste. With some research you could probably decide on a time schedule for replacing your filters, but to be certain of zero release you would probably want to err on the conservative side and replace fairly frequently. There is some cost involved in that approach.

While the amount of fumes released during mercury development is sufficient to endanger the operator in a confined space (thus the use of fume hoods) released to the atmosphere it adds a negligible load to the existing mercury burden. Within moments it is at concentrations that would be difficult to even measure. Generally ensuring that your exhaust opening is at a sufficient height is an adequate safety precaution.

If it is very important to you to not even add minimally to environmental mercury loads, activated carbon filters impregnated with sulfur are available and would work. Some research would help you determine a replacement schedule and identify a location that would accept the resultant toxic waste for safe processing.

Per jgmotamedi’s post, these comments apply only to fume hoods that exhaust externally. I strongly discourage any home practitioner from using a recirculating fume hood for mercury development.

[Andy Stockton]

Hi Bing-

That’s what I was thinking too. I’m not sure about the chemistry though, thus my question to photolytic. I’m not clear if the silica gel will release water simply because there is a differential between the saturation of the gel and the CaO. I am unclear on the process by which silica gel absorbs and releases water – it may be that it will only release water if heated.

Andy

[Andy Stockton]

Photolytic-

Will the calcium hydroxide actually pull water from the silica gel, or will only heating accomplish that?

Andy

[Andy Stockton]

Hi Bing – The process does have a steep learning curve. 🙂 I believe slaked lime is used in a similar way to silica gel, but I haven’t used it myself so perhaps someone who has can fill you in more.

Andy

[Andy Stockton]

Hi Bingtan – I’m really glad you got this thread going. Photolytic’s background as a professional chemist makes him a unique contributor to the world of contemporary daguerreotypy. Anyone who is looking to understand the science behind the process should read and re-read his posts and publications along with those of Irv Pobboravsky. They are really helpful for getting your process parameters under control.

Photolytic – a question about humidity. Do you find that the slaked lime also eventually becomes water saturated, or does it have significantly different properties compared to Mike Robinson’s suggested use of silica gel? I have wondered if there is a way to achieve some drying of either by perhaps putting a watch glass of fresh chemical in the box overnight? I thought the differential in saturation might promote some drying without completely wasting the active Br or I. Is my understanding of the chemistry involved off-base?

And Bingtan – my apologies if this is hijacking your thread. I can split off the questions if you are not finding this helpful.

Andy

[Andy Stockton]

Hi Photolytic-

Interesting info. How long does it take the vapor stratification to stabilize if a fuming box is left undisturbed? Is it stratification changes from mixing that contribute to changes in fuming times during a multi-plate daguerreotype session? (mixing from opening/closing the box cover etc.) I wonder if there is any way to control or compensate for that. Maybe it is contributing to the variability in Bingtan’s images?

Andy

[Andy Stockton]

Here is one small procedure that may help you. When I was first fuming plates I had a very hard time discerning the color changes during the fuming as they were very faint to my eye. Follow the suggestion from nawagi of using some sacrificial plates to focus on fuming color changes only (you can buff them again anyway). Then use the process below:

1) Tape a piece of white paper to the wall next to the surface holding your fuming box.
2) Lay an unfumed plate flat on that surface next to the paper (forms a 90 degree angle to each other)
3) Fume your sacrificial plate for five seconds
4) Take your fumed plate and lay it next to the unfumed plate
5) Shine a white light on both plates so they throw a reflection on the piece of paper (small flashlight)
6) The side-by-side reflection of fumed and unfumed plates makes it very easy to see even the faintest color difference.
7) Fume again for five seconds and compare the color difference
8) Keep repeating till you see all three color cycles
This process assumes you are working in a darkened room.

Some people seem to see the faint color differences very easily. I didn’t. I realized after trying this process that I had completely missed the first color cycle and was going into the second and even the third unaware. It can be hard to discern changes when you have never seen them before and have nothing to compare to. If my verbal description is unclear let me know. Hopefully you will find it helpful.

Andy

[Andy Stockton]

Hi Bakody-

I have been experimenting with stainless steel based plates for a while now and like them. Their best feature is that they only require a very light buffing to be ready to use.

I am going to start offering them for sale to daguerreotypists that wish to buy them ready made. My plan is to take pre-orders and manufacture them once a month. I have small samples available for sale now. If you have any interest please email me at plates@lightpoet.com and I can send you an information sheet. 5% of the sale price will go to support the CDags site and the Image Object annual show.

Attached are pictures of an uncut stock sheet and a daguerreotype made on the material.

Andy

Attachments:

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[Andy Stockton]

I also have a fixed base pot, but unlike Alan’s the darkslide setup on mine prevents pouring out the mercury. I use a 5ml syringe that I got from an online veterinary supply to transfer my mercury. I ground off the tip of the needle so it is blunt. I find that it gives me the most control when I move mercury in general and precludes any splashing. The thin needle lets me vacuum up even very tiny droplets. I store the syringe and the mercury in separate glass containers with metal lids. Glass/metal has proved to be the best combination I have tested for containing the mercury fumes. I store everything outside in a ventilated cabinet.

[Andy Stockton]

Hi Sonia- Please feel free to post images to the forum and ask questions!

[Andy Stockton]

Great counterpoint information.

I have been wondering for a while if anyone has experimented with the AT&T/Lucent developed Intercept anti-tarnish technology? It seems to be a completely different approach as it is a material that acts by neutralizing the tarnish promoting atmospheric components present without (apparently) interacting with the article being protected.

It seems fairly inexpensive, and while not permanent, they make the claim on at least one of their product types as being able to provide protection for 30 years. Even if not actually incorporated into the daguerreotype package, it might be a good thing to add to storage boxes and cabinets.

This is a link to the Intercept page.

Since I have no training in art conservation, please don’t take this post as any kind of endorsement. I am just curious to hear what others think.

[Andy Stockton]

I am using 1/32″ etched Teflon sheet bonded to 1/8″ acrylic as a lid on one of my fuming boxes. It is much less expensive than thicker Teflon stock and bonds quite well using the recommended adhesive. Here is the link.

http://www.scicominc.com/index.php/products/teflonr-products/ptfe-etched-sheet

 

The sheets may require some smoothing with very fine grit sandpaper to achieve a good seal. The piece I received was a bit scratched up on the non-etched side.

Andy

[Andy Stockton]

Hi Bing-

Very classy looking outsides. What dimensions did you end up with? And please share the inside workings and detail photos when you have them fully assembled. The more we share the fewer heads we will have exploding. 🙂

[Andy Stockton]

Hi csant-

Bakody’s comment about having the iodine in the box longer than 10 minutes is a good one.

I would also mention a problem I had when starting out in case it applies. I had a very hard time seeing the first cycle initially because it can be so faint. What helped me was to have an unfumed plate to compare against. What worked best was to lay the fumed and unfumed plates side by side and shine a light on them both so it reflects on a piece of white paper tacked on the wall above them. Then the color difference really stands out.

[Andy Stockton]

I agree with Jason – say what it is in the simplest terms possible. I avoid the use of the word daguerreotype and even the word photographic. For instance a mercury pot might be “metal pot on stand” or “metal pot with electric heater”…

[Andy Stockton]

Hi Jason-

Because the site is now more integrated, the login on the front page is good for the forum too. You can also have the site keep you logged on by clicking the check box.The widget is to be found in the left navigation under the Translation flags.

That same widget can be used for new registrants. We are still actively discussing what navigation should appear on the Forum pages, so all suggestions are welcome.

Andy

[Andy Stockton]

Thanks for the response Jason. I will give PFA a try. I wonder how it would do for mercury storage? Every storage method I have tried so far still allows higher than allowable levels of mercury vapor to build up in the secondary storage container. It's why I continue to store all of my chemicals in a ventilated outdoor storage cabinet.

[Andy Stockton]

Hi Jason – I'm curious how long have you had bromine in your PFA bottle? I tried a PTFE bottle and it stands up to the bromine just fine, but it clearly allows bromine vapor to migrate through the sidewalls. The whole bottle turned orange and the bromine corroded a hole through the lid of the outer containment I was using – all this with no failure of the PTFE. Is the PFA more resistant to migration of vapor?

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