Obtaining process chemicals

[Andy Stockton]

Over the weekend I created a "minimum equipment list" of what I need to produce my first daguerreotypes. Prominent on that list was iodine crystals. I figured that getting that was going to be easy compared to mercury and bromine which are much more dangerous. Silly me. It seems that iodine is being used in the USA to manufacture methamphetamine and now appears to be a controlled substance. I find numerous places on the web that say they will sell me iodine crystals, but they all seem to have warnings about no refunds if I am not a "qualified recipient".

Have any of you tried to obtain iodine crystals recently? Are DEA permits required in the USA? Any hints would be appreciated. I would hate to have to make my own – visions of big pots of stinky seaweed boiling in the back yard with drug agents poised in the bushes ready to take me away…

[CasedImage]

I have been trying to replenish my depleted stock over here in Europe and have been sold "resublimed" Iodine which comes in small prills and it doesn’t off gas as much. Crystalline Iodine is much better but does need good ventilation to handle it as its very corrosive to your lungs and inhaling it must be avoided. Try the photographersformulary.com , You have to fill out a DEA form but its worth going through the paperwork.
On your list of things you need – just sing on the forum to get rubylith, I bought a huge roll and I know others have as well and you only need a small amount.

www.CasedImage.com

[jdanforth]

I’ve bought Iodine from Photographer’s Formulary and Fisher.

[TheDagLab]

I ordered iodine crystals 5 years ago on a website thats now nonexistent, otherwise I’d post it as a source. The crystals last a long time and I have yet to add more to my box! I know people that got some off Ebay believe it or not.
I was just writing that artchemicals.com listed iodine and may be a source but there site is not up now. I hope this is just temporary.
Most art stores should carry rubylith.
Rio Grande is great for solid sheets of silver to use as plates. Saw that on your list too.
https://www.riogrande.com/home/

[TheDagLab]

Michael from artchraftchemicals.com has a great price on gold chloride among other chemicals.

Eric

[Andy Stockton]

Thanks much for the suggestions. I had been confused by the DEA site into thinking I needed a furnishing number – very expensive and not at all required. Once I saw the Buyers form on the Photographer’s Formulary web site it all made sense. I have already sent them everything they need for a small order of iodine crystals.

I am embarrassed to say that on my basic list I completely forgot the rubylith. ” title=”Sad” /> Thanks for the reminder. Does it fade or get used up? Or is it just infrequently replaced? I also thought I remembered someone on a site saying amberlith is still available and can be used. Maybe on Jon Danforth’s site.

In any case, since I will be starting very small I will probably try to buy a bit from one of the folks in the forum.

[Jon Lewis]

I’ve just discovered the same legal predicament concerning iodine crystals. Bostick and Sullivan, which is about a mile from me, doesn’t seem to have iodine but they do have a bunch of other useful chemicals (and are amazingly helpful!). Looking at Photographers’ Formulary, they sell Iodine and have the DEA Authorized Buyer form PDF linked in the page. I filled it out, printed it, and tomorrow I’ll fax it over. I’ll probably call B&S first just to see if they actually do have the iodine and it’s not on their website.

As far as rubylith goes, I checked a couple places in town today and after a few rounds of "what do you want THAT stuff for" I got a lead that I’ll follow up on this week. Either that or I’ll get some off ebay, seems to be penty on there.

Your list is great Andy, I came up with one similar yesterday and as you see, have stared collecting the necessary pieces to the puzzle. I do have one question though, what is the aluminum rod for? There are a few more things i want to read so perhaps the answer is in there…

[Andy Stockton]

Well – I don’t want to go off thread too much, but briefly the salt solution and aluminum rod are supposed to be an alternative form of fixing the daguerreotype. I am trying to keep to a minumum the number of things I buy right now and I have aluminum and salt, but not sodium thiosulfate (fixer). Of course I also don’t know if the process I mention actually works either…

[Jon Lewis]

Thank you, I now remember reading something about that in Humphrey’s Hand Book but in looking at it now (pp. 60-61) it talks about using a piece of zinc will aluminum work too? I’d love to experiment with that if I ever get a developed image that I’m not partial to ” title=”Wink” />

Anyway, fix (sodium thiosulfate) is pretty easy to get, I have a ton of it for developing black and white film though it has a hardener in it and I don’t know what that’ll do to the dag. Photographers’ Formulary and Bostick & Sullivan both have it for pretty cheap. I’m sure you could also get it from B&H, Adorama, Freestyle, or any of the other companies that supply B&W chemicals… while they last.

[jdanforth]

Amberlith has been discontinued but rubylith works fine. I get generic litho film at the local art supply store. I found that it’s FAR EASIER to just say that you’re making your own litho plates than to try to explain daguerreotypie!

I get 5lb jugs of Hypo and 5g vials of gold chloride from the Formulary.

[Jon Lewis]

I was looking at B&S for various chemicals and noticed that they didn’t sell gold chloride in powder form. They only sell it in solution (online anyway). From what I remember you need 1 gm of gold chloride in 500mL of water which is a 0.5% solution. Is there any reason to mix your own solution versus buying 500mL of 0.5% gold chloride solution? Seems like a silly question to me but I also know that the daguerreotype is a fickle process…

[TheDagLab]

I would always mix it from 1 gram powder form. $35 a gram from artchraftchemicals.com and your not paying for shipping water. Also you should dilute it more to a .2% solution, then mix 50/50 with a 1.6% sodium thiosulfate solution to make a batch you want to use for gilding.

[Jon Lewis]

Well I live a mile away from B&S so shipping isn’t an issue. A 10mL bottle of 10% solution is $30 which would make the gold chloride about $30 a gram (I think). If I add another 40mL of water it becomes 50mL of a 2% solution (if my chemistry is correct). Though I could always just see if they’ll sell me powdered gold chloride or mix me some 2% solution. Is more gold better? Is there a point where there is too much gold? Also, is anyone using sodium sulfite in combination with sodium thiosulfate for their fix?

[TheDagLab]

Sorry got my numbers mixed up. Its a .2% gold chloride solution (not 2%) mixed with 1.6% sodium thiosulfite (not 4%). I don’t know if more gold would help. The gold molecules are supposed to swap out with the silver molecules 2 for 1 on the plate during gilding (something like that) so I don’t think you can change the reaction by adding more gold. However if you over gild, the plate takes on a covering of what looks like gold. Wonder whats going on then? Time for some experimenting.

What is the sodium sulfite do when added, give more bleaching properties?

[Jon Lewis]

I’m not quite sure what the sodium sulfite does. I saw a reference to Pobboravsky’s Study of Iodized Daguerreotype Plates saying he used it but I haven’t been able to find the book in order to find out what it does.

[Race]

For you guys that need mercury, don’t break those antique thermometers. I buy vats of "triple distilled" mercury from Post Apple Scientific. Here’s their website:

shop2.chemassociates.com/

As soon as I remember the place were I buy my liquid bromine (not bromine water) I’ll let you know. The HAZMAT shipping fee is sky rocket! Before you purchase this lethal chemical, please buy a PTFE bottle for safe storage use!-Race G.

[corey r]

I am having the hardest time getting ahold of iodine crystals. I’m just getting started right now and I don’t need much. Photographer’s formulary says that they will most likely not be restocking iodine at all. 10g or so is all i need and I can’t seem to find anyone who wants to sell me any less than 100g at a time.

Also, as chemistry is not my strongest subject, is there a major difference between resublimed iodine crystals and what I see listed as pure iodine crystals? This is becoming quite the undertaking.

[CasedImage]

Hi Corey
It is hard to come buy as the sale of it is restricted as it is used in illegal drug production. Resublimed Iodine seems to off-gas much less than the crystals but I have known folk to use it for making dags.

www.CasedImage.com

[Andy Stockton]

Hi Corey-

I got my iodine from Photographer’s Formulary but as you say they are now out of stock. ScienceLab.com has sublimated iodine in stock in 25g quantity. It is my understanding that sublimation and resublimation are just purification processes. Other than that I think it is all just Iodine. I defer to CasedImage on experience however, though I’m surprised to hear that it off-gasses less. Perhaps a bit of work in a mortar and pestle would fix that? Smaller pieces have greater surface area and should produce more off-gassing.

[botticelli1972]

The crystals work much better than the prills. You can also use liquid iodine as you would get at a drug store but it is messy, others have done this with success for large plates to get an even surface and it was recorded in the historical record as a viable option. It might be possible to evaporate out the liquid and leave behind only the solid, thought I have not tried this. I get mine (crystals) from tack shops (horse supply) it is used as a foot fungus treatment. Here is a link.

http://www.wilsontack.com/catalogue

At the bottom of the page they list 2 oz for $12. order two and it will fill the bottom of a 4×6 Pyrex with a thin uniform layer that will last years.And yes, daguerreotpy is an undertaking, but one worth the effort.Larry

[TheDagLab]

Here is another site that sells Iodine and Bromine…

http://jdphotochem.com/

[Andy Stockton]

Hi Eric-

Have you ordered from this company? Any problems with International shipping or other issues?

[TheDagLab]

I haven’t ordered from them yet but Binh has and I don’t think he had any issues. A little long for the shipping but not bad.

[Andy Stockton]

Thanks, I’ll give them a try and report back.

[photolytic]

If Wendy’s had sold Bromine, Clara Peller, the old lady in their commercials, would have asked "Where’s the Bromine". ” title=”Confused” />

[Author]

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