Introduction and Quick Questions

[Blake]

Hello, all! I am a current wet-plater/ether-breather who is wanting to try my hand at Daguerreotypes. What really got me interested was actually holding a daguerreotype that I found at an antique store a few weeks ago.

I am really leaning toward starting with the Bacquerel process, and I know where to source a lot of my materials already. However, there are several questions I can not find great answers on:

1) How much iodine should typically go into the fume box?
2) I have seen fixers consisting of 8g of Sodium Thiosulfate in 500ml distilled water as well 15g of Sodium Thiosulfate and 15g of Sodium Sulfite in 500ml distilled water. Which fixer mix should be used? Is the sodium sulfite needed? Is it better to have it in the mix?
3) How much iodine and gold chloride should I buy to start with?
4) Is the light sensitivity range (i.e. sensitivity to UV spectrum/blue light) similar to Wet Plate Collodion?
5) How long is a typical development under the rubylith? (I will be using rubylith, and assume that it should work.) I have seen anywhere from 1.5 to 3 hours. Is it essentially a judgement call based on how much you want it over/under-developed? Are two layers of rubylith enough?
6) Once developed, is it safe to take it directly out of the rubylith tray (indoors) under normal light and go directly to the fixer, or should this be done under safe-light? I know that in wet-plate, you have to stop the development before going to normal light conditions. Why would that not be the case in the Bacquerel process?
7) Is there a preferred book that everyone recommends for the beginner in Daguerreotypes (that would cover both the mercury and bacquerel processes)?
8) Is there anyone here doing successful portraits using the Bacquerel process?

I know that there are a lot of questions here, and I hope that it is not too much for one sitting. I look forward to the discussion.

Thank you!
-Blake
http://www.blakewylie.com

[jgmotamedi]

Hi Blake, welcome and see below.

1) How much iodine should typically go into the fume box?

It depends on the size of your box. I have about 150g in my whole plate box.

2) I have seen fixers consisting of 8g of Sodium Thiosulfate in 500ml distilled water as well 15g of Sodium Thiosulfate and 15g of Sodium Sulfite in 500ml distilled water. Which fixer mix should be used? Is the sodium sulfite needed? Is it better to have it in the mix?

Different folks use different amounts. I dissolve 15g of Sodium Sulfite (works as a preservative and swallows some of the oxygen which may reduce the amount of silver on your plate) in 500ml distilled water, and then add 50g of hypo. I know other folks who use 15g of hypo, but I found it to be a little slow.

3) How much iodine and gold chloride should I buy to start with?

Depends on your box. I would buy 100-200g of iodine (flakes are better than prills) and maybe hold off on the gold for a while. Get yourself up and running before worrying about gilding. Personally, I think gilding works poorly with Becquerel plates.

4) Is the light sensitivity range (i.e. sensitivity to UV spectrum/blue light) similar to Wet Plate Collodion?

The range is very similar (blue and UV), but Becquerel plates are a lot slower. Maybe 3-4 stops slower than a collodion positive?

5) How long is a typical development under the rubylith? (I will be using rubylith, and assume that it should work.) I have seen anywhere from 1.5 to 3 hours. Is it essentially a judgement call based on how much you want it over/under-developed? Are two layers of rubylith enough?

I would say a starting point would be 2 hours in bright sunlight or 3 hours under a 500 watt halogen worklight. One layer of rubylith should be fine.

6) Once developed, is it safe to take it directly out of the rubylith tray (indoors) under normal light and go directly to the fixer, or should this be done under safe-light? I know that in wet-plate, you have to stop the development before going to normal light conditions. Why would that not be the case in the Bacquerel process?

It is fine to do this in daylight.

7) Is there a preferred book that everyone recommends for the beginner in Daguerreotypes (that would cover both the mercury and bacquerel processes)?

There are no in-press contemporary how-to books on Daguerreotypes. There were a few published years ago on Mercury (like Ken Nelson’s) but nothing on Becquerel. There are a few how-to guides floating on the internet.

8) Is there anyone here doing successful portraits using the Bacquerel process?

Sure, it just takes lots of time and light… like 3 minutes at f2.8 with an ev of 12.

At this point it would make sense for you to go through a read a few of the how to guides online. The Resources page on CDags has a few listed.

[Blake]

Thank you for the excellent response. I have been reading several of the online how-to guides and printed them off. I am going to start sourcing more materials and the chemicals I do not already have too.

As far as the iodine goes, do you typically store your iodine in the fuming box, or do you remove it and store it in its bottle after each use?

And, what does gilding really do? Can an image be protected just as well behind a sealed mat and glass without gilding?

Thanks again!
-Blake

[Blake]

As to the iodine, what type is the best to use specifically? I have found various types and descriptions. I am assuming Elemental Iodine Crystals, but there could be differing options there?

For example:
Reagent Grade
http://www.carolina.com/catalog/detail.jsp?prodId=868984&s_cid=ppc_gl_products&gclid=COCF1a3HqLsCFQbl7AodTH0A1Q

Or

ACS Grade
http://www.ebay.com/itm/100-g-3-55-oz-pure-elemental-iodine-crystals-ACS-grade-/271308876719?_trksid=p2054897.l4276

or even this (price seems higher per gram):
http://www.ebay.com/itm/250g-8-8oz-ACS-grade-pure-elemental-iodine-crystals-/281224529312?_trksid=p2054897.l4276

Thanks again!

[jgmotamedi]

Carolina and most of the big lab supply companies won’t sell chemicals to individuals, only schools or appropriate businesses. It seems that ebay is now the primary source for iodine. That said, I imagine the quality of most ebay iodine to be pretty poor, but it is probably better than they had in the 19th century. You can store iodine in a fuming box if it is built with glass and/or fluoropolymer containing the chemical fumes.

[Blake]

Just an update. For my intial plates, I am going to use mirror polished stainless steel. I was able to get a small scrap piece for free from a friend who works in a lot of metals. I was able to cut it into 5 quarter plate pieces and dropped them off to the local silver-plater yesterday. I should have about $9 in each plate.

I hope to start building the iodine fuming box very soon. Will be building it around pyrex baking dishes. I have ordered some Teflon sheets (as recommended on other parts of the forum), but I still don’t know if I will use glass or wood covered teflon for the slide. The overall design is currently in the air as well. Either way, I recently bought a router table and will be experimenting.

I have rubylith, and I need to order some sodium sulfite (already have sodium thiosulfate). I will get iodine off of eBay as suggested.

Maybe in a few short months I can attempt to make my first b-dag.

I probably will not even attempt the mercurial method until I find a good fuming hood and can have an exterior building to install it in.

-Blake

[nawagi]

Blake –

A few thoughts on my experience with Beqs:

Plating: I initially used a local plater who was very cost effective: $10 for a 5×7. He’s a military contractor and fit my stuff into his job runs. But…his plating results were heavily “frosted” and took a great deal of polishing time to be usable. I then tried the platers listed on this site (Theta, Theiss, Zapfe). They charge 3 to 4 times as much – but the quality of the plating was terrific. Zapfe in Seattle was the most expensive but produced plates so good you could almost use them out-of-the-box. I found Theta Plate a good compromise for price and quality. If your local plater will work with you, try different volatages and times in the plating bath – slow and steady wins the race here.

Buffing: Yes it really is ALL about the buff and polish. There’s a lot of good work flows on this site on plate prep- pick one you like and stick to it. When you introduce many variables in the buff/polish, you’ll never know what you did right or wrong. I could tell you what works for me, here in Connecticut- and I know what Jerry does in NYC, or Mike in Toronto, or Jason out west are different- but we all get good results. If I was to give you one piece of buff/polish advice: double the amount of time you think you need by hand, and groom your buffs regularly.

Iodine: Chemsavers (on the web) will sell to individuals. ACS grade is fine. I use 100 grams cut with 100 grams of silica gel. Lay a thin piece of polyester batting on top of the crystals to even out the flow of iodine fumes. I charge my box 48 hours before shooting and keep it in a 70 degree constant temperature room for fuming. I store the crystals in a brown glass bottle with ptfe lid, Teflon liner and two wraps of “gas pipe” Teflon tape (not the plumbers grade) around the theads. I keep my fuming boxes and chemistry in my garage locked up. NEVER heat up iodine crystals.

Exposures: While Beqs are mostly UV sensitive, a light meter that measures EV is helpful to dial in exposures. But remember that UV is a function of the sun, so time of year and time of day make a big difference. Think of getting a sunburn: 10am – 2pm is the best time of day, June – August the best times of year. But UV reflects strongly off water or snow, so if that’s in your image you’ll get a shorter exposure. I shoot a test plate on a given shooting day to dial in the time, typically 1 or 2 minute steps at f5.6 or 8 depending on conditions.

Development: I use amberlith in bright sunlight for 1 – 2 hours. You’ll see an image start to appear in the first 15 minutes, and with experience you can gauge your exposure using this brief development period. Preventing foggy development rests on 2 things: keep the plate cool (That 500 watt halogen worklite will fog the heck out of a plate unless you keep a fan on it) and make sure your plate is sealed into its amberlith mask on all 4 sides with lightproof tape.

Gilding: Jason is correct. Guilding Beq’s is a waste of gold chloride. When and if you go into Hg dags, then guilding comes into play (and really improves plates).

Notes: Okay, call me a frustrated scientist. I take meticulous notes on everything. It has helped me troubleshoot faster and better, and helped me get much better exposures under a variety of conditions

I also work in wetplate (13 years) – started Dags 2 years ago and love ’em. Good luck, and it truly is worth the effort!

Nate Gibbons

[Blake]

Thanks, Nate! Great info!

I got my silver plated plates back the other day, and they look really good. Truly a mirror finish. There are some slight scratches in the surface from just being rubbed by their paper holders, but I will *probably* be able to get those out with velvet. At least one of the plates hardly has any scratches at all. Time will tell, but I have been impressed with this particular silver-plater.

A few more items left before I start testing:

1) Build the iodine fuming box. I think I am ready to get started. Should hopefully have this built in a few weeks. It won’t be anything impressive, but I hope it will do the job.
2) Waiting on a quarter-plate plate holder. I could have probably built this myself, but I went with the guy that built my current wet-plate plate back for my Century Studio camera.
3) Some velvet to use in my final polishing
4) Make some type of polishing block to hold the plates while polishing.

Otherwise, I already have:
-Dallmeyer Pentac f/2.9 lens (something faster than my older, f/8 lens I normally use)
-Silver plated quarter-plates
-A few things to build the fuming box (pyrex baking dishes, ptfe sheets, wood, etc)
-Iodine
-Sodium thiosulfate and sodium sulfite for the fixer
-Rubylith sheets
-Sunlight and warmer weather will be later at this point (if that groundhog is to be believed)

Blake

[Blake]

By the way…how does one not let a plate get hot when developing beneath rubylith under the sunlight?

-Blake

[CasedImage]

I designed a becq. developing frame that lets the back of the plate be exposed for cooling – http://www.cdags.org/becquerel/

www.CasedImage.com

[botticelli1972]

To keep the plate cool place it in a northern window, I have left them for 10 hours while away at work to great results. I have the same lens as you. At full sun, EV 14.5 with the ASA on the meter set at 100, and the lens at full open you should be able to get a good portrait in 30 seconds for Caucasian skin. Bright whites look best at 8 seconds or they will be solarized and dark shadows do not show well until 45 seconds. See my post from while back called new lens test plates. http://www.cdags.org/forums/topic/new-lens-test-plates/

[nawagi]

Blake-

I lean my Beq. developing holder against a rock so that air can flow behind it. I also use a small portable fam to keep the air moving if its a warm day.

Can you share the name of your plater with the forum? We’re always looking for new resources, and your description of the quality of his plating job sounds worth checking out.

NWG

[Blake]

NWG,

Thanks for the info!

The plater I am using is Leonard Plating Company. The owner said they get items sent to them from around the world (he didn’t quite know why), but they seem to do a fair amount of work from outside of Nashville, TN.

http://www.leonardplatingcompany.com/

Granted, I did give them mirror finished stainless steel to being with, but the silver layer was mirror finished and at this point I will be doing the final buffing to get rid of the micro-scratches. Based on what I have read in the forums, I have purchased a Bosch ROS with pads, lampblack and powdered rogue to do that with.

Slowly but surely making progress on my iodine fuming box as well. Need to find some time this weekend to get it closer to completion.

-Blake

[Blake]

This weekend, I made my second ever attempt at a bdag.

Details:
Size: Quarter plate
Fumed for the first reddish/purple hue
Shade on a sunny day
Exposure: 1 min 50 sec
Lens: Dallmeyer Pentac 8″ f/2.9
Development: 1.5 hours

I need to do a better job of drying the plate as it left a stain where the water dried.

My first attempt was last weekend, and I overexposed that plate, but I did get an image and could see where I needed to make other improvements. I am really glad to be able to get an image at this point with my second ever attempt.

Here is the image:

Also, here is the fuming box I built. This is my first attempt. I may build another one later on. I would probably only do a max of 5×7 on this, but I was originally going to shoot for whole plate. The insert is for two quarter plates. The seal is made using PTFE (teflon) glued to the bottom of the wood over a pyrex baking dish. The wood for the slide is recycled from a wine crate (hence the graphics on it).

Thank you to everyone who helped out with advice. I will hopefully keep trying over time and attempt to get better at it.

-Blake

[nawagi]

Blake-

I dry my plates this way:

Final rinse in a tray of distilled water. Have a dedicated blow dryer plugged in and ready (Dedicated= only used for Dags, tape a cheapo painters dust mask over the dryer’s air inlet to really cut down on dust).

Fire up the blow dryer at top heat and air speed. Pull your plate from the tray and lean it 75 degrees away from you, short axis parallel to the floor.

Starting at one corner, aim the dryer about 1 – 2 inches over the plate’s surface (careful!) and sweep it down with a back and forth motion. You will see the water run away from the stream of hot air, the surface drying as it recedes.

“Push” that drying line right down to the bottom of the plate. There will be a line of water there (what you drove down) so linger with the heat until it is all evaporated. Voila – a stain-free dry plate ready to case.

If you miss a spot and get stains, immediately re-submerge the plate in the distilled water and repeat the process. I’ve saved many plates this way while getting my technique down.

[Greg Williamson]

Great thread. Lots of good information.

Complete beginner here. I made a few becquerel plates over the weekend at a workshop with Jerry Spagnoli. We gilded our plates and it made quite a difference to the density of the image and a huge difference to the robustness. I don’t think I’d make them without gilding.

How do you manage the delicate surface of the finished plate if you don’t gild?

[nawagi]

I protect the image with a thin piece of cover glass. Surplus Shed.com has terrific Schott glass in very thin 12″ square sheets. They also make for a great ambrotype.

NWG

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