Gilding

[Festus]

I just tried to gild my first ever plate. Absolute disaster! Completely ruined.

The small alcohol lamb that I bought didn’t show up, so tried to use my propane torch. Even with a light touch, those plates heat up FAST. Practise, practise, practise.

[dagist]

Festus,

As you begin your gilding experiments, you may wish to save your used gilding solution (I do), so that one day you can attempt to reclaim the preciously-expensive unused gold chloride from it. There is a process by which you can retrieve any unused gold from the solution. I now have a couple gallons worth of solution, awaiting my first attempt at reclamation. It involves purchasing additional chemicals (mossy zinc, for one) and I have yet to attempt the somewhat complicated process. Another project for another day.

I can’t say whether or not it is cost effective, because I really have no idea how much gold is reclaimable. Has anyone else attempted to reclaim their gold?

Good Luck,

Rob McElroy

Buffalo, NY

[drdag]

Quote:

I just tried to gild my first ever plate. Absolute disaster! Completely ruined.

The small alcohol lamb that I bought didn’t show up, so tried to use my propane torch. Even with a light touch, those plates heat up FAST. Practise, practise, practise.

I am sure we have all been there. I f***ed up a really special one early on

[photolytic]

Festus,

Get yourself an infraRed thermometer. Sears has one for about $60.

Shoot for a gilding temp of 60-70C where the solution begins to steam but no bubbles appear.

It helps to have good lighting so you can see what’s happening.

[photolytic]

Rob,

Rob,

Sounds like your gold recovery idea is a good one.

One assumption might be that a gilded wholeplate Dag (356.45cm2) is covered with a monolayer of gold atoms. Actual X-ray scattering measurements I did on Dag plates gilded by Tom Young showed that approx. 5% of the silver atoms on the surface of the plate had been replaced with gold.

The molecular diameter of the gold atom is about 0.288 nm (0.0000000288cm) Approximately 4.297 x10^16 atoms of gold, weighing 14 mg, would fit on the surface of a wholeplate 16.5cm x 21.6cm.

Assuming that your gilding solution contains approx. 1 mg/cc of gold chloride, which is 50% gold, this is equivalent to the amount of gold in 28cc of gilding solution.

Therefore, if you gild with 80cc of solution, there may be approx. 52mg of gold chloride left (65%) in the solution after gilding.

If only 5% surface coverage is assumed, only 1.4mg of gold chloride (<2%) would have been consumed, and a whopping 78mg left in the gilding solution.

That would make gold recovery a worthwhile venture indeed.

[Pobboravsky]

Hi Photolytic,

Excellent analysis! Congratulations.

The 1994 Daguerreian Annual has an article by Emily Bailey and Clyde Barlow on recovering gold from gilding solutions. It is entitled: If Only Alchemy Were This Easy: A Practical Method of Recovering Gold from Used Gold Toning Solution; pp. 13-16.

Never tried it myself but would be interested in the results of anyone trying it.

Irv

[Festus]

Photolytic. An infrared thermometer, huh? I’ll get one this weekend. But after you bring it up to 60-70c, then what? From what I understand the plate will darken, then lighten back up…and your done. Rinse, dry, and seal.

[CasedImage]

So I’m about to buy more gold chloride and my chemical company is offering two types of gold chloride –

“two different compounds.The second one is gold monochloride (aurous) which is less stable so it is likely you would use the gold trichloride (auric), This is definitely more common.

“

these are product details (with the NZ dollar/peso):

Item: ACR318645000 EA Qty: 2 $132.35 $264.70

Gold (III) chloride 99% 500mg

Item: ACR388330010 EA Qty: 1 $364.75 $364.75

Gold(I) chloride 99+% 1 gram

So my question is will the difference matter?

www.CasedImage.com

[jgmotamedi]

Auric Chloride (AKA Gold III Chloride or AuCl3) is what I have always used.

[phuphuphnik]

When Developing via Beq, I set the plate on top of the halogen light. (light beam going down, so the plate is set on the back of the lamp) It is plenty hot to successfully guild the plate.

[Andy Stockton]

Interesting approach, sounds like it would be a more controlled heat source than a torch or alcohol lamp. Have you had a spill of gilding solution onto the lamp housing? If so, what happened?

Also, what is your method of leveling the plate so the meniscus is even?

I will have to check the temperature that my lamp housing reaches.

[phuphuphnik]

I have the top of the light at a slight angle. After the clearing of the plate, I give it a swish in distilled water, and put it while still quite wet onto the light. As the water heats up I put the AgCl along the uphill edge of the plate with an eyedropper. I wait until the plate is starting to dry, then give it another swish in the water, then dry.

The solution doesn’t do much more than hiss a bit and evaporate if it hits the housing. Tell you what, in the next couple days I’ll post a video of the process.

[newone2010]

Hi Everyone,

I saw the price of Aucl3 which Alan posted one year ago.

“So I’m about to buy more gold chloride and my chemical company is offering two types of gold chloride –

“two different compounds.The second one is gold monochloride (aurous) which is less stable so it is likely you would use the gold trichloride (auric), This is definitely more common.

“

these are product details (with the NZ dollar/peso):

Item: ACR318645000 EA Qty: 2 $132.35 $264.70

Gold (III) chloride 99% 500mg

Item: ACR388330010 EA Qty: 1 $364.75 $364.75

Gold(I) chloride 99+% 1 gram”

I am a little confused.How much others pay for it?

I think the price Alan posted was too expensive.

I bought 3 gram of AuCl4.4H2O(Au ?47.8%)half a year ago,it is just about RMB450 for each gram. The price is changing according Au future goods.

I think the price I get is expensive,but Alan’s price is higher.

Can somebody tell me which kind of Au+Cl you get and how much it is?

[New Alchemy]

Hello, I have my lab up and running for a couple of months now, finally getting my ducks in a row in procuring a good image. However, I have ruined 2 perfectly good dags this week in the gilding process. I have gilded a few images a couple of weeks back with no problems. Now I’m getting a wavy, milky film on the surface when I go to dry the plate. Went back to square one, double checked formulations and procedure. What I am noticing is that the gold solution is nice, gold color but clear. The fixer I mix fresh with distilled, also clear. Its when I mix the gold into the fixer, it starts to become cloudy within a minute or two. filtering does not help. I don’t remember the solution being cloudy before. Ive checked and checked and just reformulated everything with new chemistry….still cloudy within a minute or two. This is getting expensive, but more so I have my best dag yet waiting for gilding but don’t want to ruin another. Any feedback or suggestions would be appreciated. Thanks, Dan K

[Andy Stockton]

Below from the wiki – are you pouring the fixer into the gold solution? You state the correct method in your post, but I wondered if you accidentally reversed the order? Just a thought.

Gilding Solution

Part A: 1 gram Gold Chloride in 500 mL distilled water (0.2% solution).

Part B: 4 grams Sodium Thiosulfate in 500 mL distilled water (0.8% solution).

Parts A and B are mixed 1:1 right before use.[1]

In preparing the gold chloride solution add the gold chloride to 400ml of distilled water. Rinse the glass vial or ampoule with distilled water into the solution and top up the solution with more distilled water until it is 500ml. Filter the solution and store in a 500ml amber bottle.

When mixing the A and B solutions, always pour the gold into the sodium thiosulfate solution. The yellowish gold solution will turn clear as this occurs. If you pour the thiosulfate into the gold, a brown precipitate can form in the solution. If the precipitate does form, the solution can be reclaimed by adding a couple teaspoons of table salt to the solution and letting it sit overnight. It is also best if your working strength gilding solution is filtered just before use.

[Author]

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