de-ionised vs distilled

[drdag]

Do you use de-ionised or distilled water for the final clean before drying?

I have been using de-ionised as that is all I seem to be able to get in the uk.

However I am getting water marks and stains whilst drying.

Is it the water or my technique ? any advice gratefully received.

[CasedImage]

When I lived in Ireland last year I found it impossible to get distilled water too even through the chemical supply company I was ordering through. They sold triple de-ionised “lab water” which I used which seemed fine in the end. If I’m having trouble with water marks appearing in drying, I wash the plate again and either try add some ethanol to the final wash or just use straight ethanol.

www.CasedImage.com

[photolytic]

I now use what is labeled “distilled water” but I have used deionized water in the past.

Either one can become contaminated with fine parties of nonionic or biological matter.

For critical work some recommend using double distilled water or deionised water that has been filtered though a 0.2 micron filter.

I find distilled water works fine for rinsing non gilded images which repel water rather well. However for drying gilded images, which have a more matt surface, I find it desirable to rinse the plates with alcohol before blow drying.

[Andy Stockton]

Below a comparison of the two processes lifted straight from wikipedia.

One question though – is there any difference between using isopropyly alcohol and ethanol?

Distillation

Distilled water is often defined as bottled water that has been produced by a process of distillation and has an electrical conductivity of not more than 10 µS/cm and total dissolved solids of less that 10 mg/L[1]. Distillation involves boiling the water and then condensing the steam into a clean container, leaving most solid contaminants behind. Distillation produces very pure water but also leaves behind a leftover white or yellowish mineral scale on the distillation apparatus, which requires that the apparatus be frequently cleaned. Distillation does not guarantee the absence of bacteria in drinking water; unless the reservoir and/or bottle are sterilized before being filled, and once the bottle has been opened, there is a risk of presence of bacteria.

Deionization

Deionized water which is also known as demineralized water[2] (DI water or de-ionized water; can also be spelled deionised water, see spelling differences) is water that has had its mineral ions removed, such as cations from sodium, calcium, iron, copper and anions such as chloride and bromide. Deionization is a physical process which uses specially-manufactured ion exchange resins which bind to and filter out the mineral salts from water. Because the majority of water impurities are dissolved salts, deionization produces a high purity water that is generally similar to distilled water, and this process is quick and without scale buildup. However, deionization does not significantly remove uncharged organic molecules, viruses or bacteria, except by incidental trapping in the resin. Specially made strong base anion resins can remove Gram-negative bacteria. Deionization can be done continuously and inexpensively using electrodeionization.

[AgNO3]

I bypassed all the trouble of looking for it and made distilled water myself. Took out a large glass retort I bought a while back and placed a clean bottle with a ground stopper under the neck. I just put a bunsen burner under it on low and after a hour I had a full bottle of pure H20 without any dissolved solids. If you use rainwater to distill instead of tap water it would be even cleaner.

I placed a drop on a plate and heated it until it dissapeared and it didn’t leave a spot.

[jdanforth]

I’m with you, AgNO3. When the coppers come ’round to ask about the distillation equipment you just start talking to them about 19th century photography, invite them in for a demonstration, confuse the bejeezus out of ’em and you’re golden.

Pro Tip: Don’t boast about how you’re a Sudafed away from making crystal meth in your studio what with all the Iodine and other crap you’ve got laying around. Tee hee hee.

[jdanforth]

Forgot to ask. John: are you just moving the gilded dags to an H2O bath then to an isopropyl bath prior to drying? Seems like a good idea.

My genius idea of dropping some Photo Flo into the bath didn’t work very well. Don’t bother with that one, chaps.

[CasedImage]

I did read of a home made solution to getting distilled water – Fill a very large pot with water and in it float a large bowl. turn the pot lid upside down and place ice in it. When boiling water in the pot the water condenses on the cold lid it drips down into the bowl. Might seem a little labour intensive but one avenue at least.

www.CasedImage.com

[Jon Lewis]

Jonathan, thanks for the info about Photo Flo. It was next on my list of things to try.

[drdag]

This is great stuff, I have a wood burning stove going most of the time, so I will make a condenser and make my own. We are also blessed with the softest water in the uk which should help. It is such a shame when you have a keeper, you’ve done the hard work only to mess it up at the last minute. I feel that my de-ionised water came straight out of the sea!

I like the idea of alcohol, I guess you buy it from a pharmacy? Otherwise I could triple distill some Jack Daniels in my new still!

What was that recipe for crystal meth Jonathan?

[CasedImage]

I’ve found ethanol/pure alcohol can be hard to obtain like crystal iodine because it also is used in illegal substance production. You will be able to get Isopropol alcohol from a Pharmacy/drug store but it may give you problems like the de-ionised water did.

www.CasedImage.com

[Andy Stockton]

So those of you using alcohol are finding 100% solutions? What I find at the drugstore is usually 70% although you can sometimes find 90% solutions. The ethanol also has been “denatured” (made poisonous) by the addition of some methanol. So do the less pure solutions matter?

[photolytic]

I use denatured alcohol from the home improvement stores which contains <4% methanol.

All drinking alcohol contains 5% water since a 95/5 ethanol/water mixture has a lower boiling point (Azeotrope) than pure alcohol.

After washing my plates in tap water, I hold them my hand and flow DI water over them end to end 4 times. Them I repeat this process with alcohol. Here’s a tip I’ve recommended before. Always wear a latex glove on the hand holding the plate as the alcohol will dissolve skin oils and leave an oily deposit on the plate.

Distilling your own water is certainly an option but you may end up using more energy from non-renewable sources unless you use wood or the sun to supply the heat.

Soft water should not be confused with distilled or deionized water. It usually contains more sodium rather than calcium or magnesium ions. Typically municipal water from rivers or shallow reservoirs contains less calcium hardness than water from wells or deep lakes like we have in Chicago.

[drdag]

Is this the stuff? http://www.twenga.co.uk/offer/5813/7470951720218085297.html

[CasedImage]

Thanks John, your are a well of handy info! I don’t think anyone here has used isopropol, it may work fine but you’ll have to try it out, from the product label in that link it looks to be a fair bet – used for cleaning optical equipment for a grease free surface, let us know how it goes.

www.CasedImage.com

[drdag]

I have ordered 5 litres of 99.95% as well as some ‘distilled water’ I will report back

[Author]

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