buying bromine?

[christian_rice]

I’ve read the forum posts about isolating bromine, and I’ve seen a lot of internet info about the same. I can do some machining and welding, though I’m not a chemist, but with some trepidation I’m steeling myself to embark as necessary.

What I’m really interested in is how to qualify as a purchaser of bromine from Spectrum Chemicals or Fisher (or wherever). I applied at Spectrum, denied. I know some of you can and do buy bromine. Anyone care to share some insights?

I’ve been gathering some insight into the account setup denial process, at least that I can share. Spectrum told me they’re regulated by the DEA and DOJ. They look at the billing address and shipping address, they google both. No shipments to residences or PO boxes are permitted. If the company name associated with either the billing or shipping address doesn’t look like it needs bromine for business purposes, no dice. So I got spanked for having a photographic business at a residence and a non-qualified business at the shipping address. I tried LabDepotInc.com, found out it resells Spectrum. No point in angering the bees further there.

Is my only option to make it? What am I overlooking?

Cheers,

christian

SF Bay Area

[dagist]

Christian,

The easiest way to purchase bromine and other chemicals, which chemical suppliers have decided not to sell to individuals, is to have a friend at an educational institution (a university, college, or even a high school) call up the chemical supplier and order it for you.

Sometimes the supplier will want the order to go through the school’s purchasing department (which can be a hassle) but often times they won’t. All they really need is to be able to put the school’s name on the invoice; that way, they aren’t violating their company’s protocol.

It’s not illegal to purchase daguerreian chemicals in the US, and I don’t believe the DEA or the DOJ require any paperwork to be filed when purchasing the small quantities we need as daguerreotypists.

In the US, bromine can get expensive, mostly because of its shipping restrictions. It cannot be shipped by any common carrier (USPS, UPS, Fed Ex, etc.) and must be shipped using a carrier (trucking company) that is licensed to haul that specific type of hazardous material. The last time I priced bromine a few years ago, the shipping cost from New Jersey to Buffalo, NY (I think it was $175.00) was more than the cost of the bromine itself.

Good luck. Be persistent and you will find it.

Cheers,

Rob McElroy

Buffalo, NY

[Andy Stockton]

Hi Christian-

I live in the SF Bay Area and last purchased elemental bromine from San Jose Scientific in Santa Clara. It is a supply house for school labs and hobbyists. This is the web link: http://www.sanjosescientific.com. They do not sell bromine on the website.

If I am remembering correctly I had to actually go to the store and explain what I was doing and they ordered the bromine and had it shipped to the store. I then went and picked it up. I ordered a 250 gram bottle and I have mercifully forgotten what it cost. The bulk of the cost, as Rob mentions, was for the hazmat shipping.

If you would like to see my blog post and pictures of unpacking the shipping container, the link is http://www.thedaguerreotypist.com/tdg1/wordpress/2009/04/06/dsn/

Good luck, hopefully the legal restrictions haven’t driven them away from selling it.

Obligatory safety note: Please study an MSDS for bromine if you haven’t done so already http://www.sciencelab.com/xMSDS-Bromine-9927659 , and consider that you may want to store it in a locked cabinet outside of your house. The Alfa Aesar bottle I received had a cap failure within a couple of months. There is a reason they pack bromine so carefully. Mercury can damage you over time, but bromine handled incorrectly can send you to the ER in minutes. Sermon over, that is my Public Health Nurse background talking.

Cheers,

Andy

[christian_rice]

A nice lead, the San Jose shop, thanks Andy–I’ll check that out. I’d love to check out your castle sometime, maybe there’s cause for a bay area dag meetup? One last question about San Jose Scientific–did they want to know if the bromine was going to a residence? If so, how did you handle that? Or should I not ask? Not that that’s your situation, AFAIK…

And thanks, Rob for the encouragement.

I’ve been chasing down a lot of leads, and it does seem that the academic/educational sector is the well-lit path, because I’ve now got access to bromine. Not my own bottle, but it’s a start, and that means I don’t have to keep it in my house for now, nor did I have to bubble chlorine gas through dissolved pool tablets

[Andy Stockton]

Hi Christian-

No, there was no issue with me taking the bromine home. The business vs residence difficulty only comes up because truck shippers in general do not want to deliver anything to a residence (not just chemicals). They can’t afford to have drivers making multiple trips because no one is at home. Since I was picking it up myself from the store, that wasn’t a problem.

A meetup is a good goal, but will probably have to wait for a while as far as my participation is concerned. The two jobs I have keep me tied up most of the time (have to pay for daguerreian adventures somehow). Still – we are approaching enough practitioners in the Bay Area to have a quorum.

[Bakody]

Hi!

Because soon I will collect all the necessary equipment to make mercury dags (vacuum development) it’s time to buy the chemicals, like bromine…

Just to make sure, I want to ask a few things:

BROMINE WATER 30G/L 1 * 29 ml Is this solution contains too much water, too weak?

So I have left 2 other option:

BROMINE LIQUID, 99.8% 1 * 250 g

BROMINE LIQUID, 99.8% 1 * 25 g

About how much ml are they? How long is the 25g enough for you?

And at the end, I know this is the bromine section, but how much mercury you usually buy and for example 100g mercury is about how much ml?

http://daginhun.blogspot.com/
 http://www.facebook.com/DagerrotipiaDaguerreotype

[photolytic]

The specific gravity (density) of any chemical is easy to lookup, either on Google or in any chemical handbook.

Mercury weighs 13.5 grams/ml so 100 ml is only 7.4ml. This is hardly enough to cover the bottom of a small dish.

Bromine weighs 2.93 gm/ml so 100ml would be about 34ml. 100grams of bromine is enough for a year or two of Dag making, but considering the delivery costs, 250grams (85ml) might save you money in the long run.

My recommendation would be to start by trying cold mercury development of plates without bromine until you work out all the variables (temp, Vacuum, time) and then add bromine to the mix.

[Bakody]

Thank you for your answer! It was really helpful.

I will listen to you and first I will make it without bromine.

http://daginhun.blogspot.com/
 http://www.facebook.com/DagerrotipiaDaguerreotype

[photolytic]

In my previous post I said “Mercury weighs 13.5 grams/ml so 100 ml is only 7.4ml.”

Of course I should have said 100grams of mercury is only 7.4ml.

I hope I didn’t mislead anybody by this typo.

[Author]

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