Alternate toners?

[corey r]

So I know I’m jumping the gun here a little since I just made my first successful image a few days ago but here’s a question for y’all: are there other toners out there that will work with becquerel dags? Will POP toners work? How about hand coloring?

-Corey

[bailun]

So

It is necessary to understand, that with gold at you has failed and other toner is necessary.

Please. Try chloride of platinum.

Is old reports about successful application of platinum.

What for it is necessary POP toners? I do not think that POP toners will solve a problem of gilding Bdag.

Here gold change for gold.

Only for dag apply pure(clean) chloride of gold, and for POP – burdened another not predicted for dag chemistry. What for?

Well to look that at you it has turned out?

Or you well gilded after the first successful dag and gold has already bothered, and it is necessary to search for other toner, or at you it has not well turned out with gilding and other alternative is necessary? Easier predicted and comfortable.

But such gilding for Bdag does not exist while in the nature.

Gilding is one of the most tragical operations with Bdag.

It is necessary to tell that the technology of gilding Bdag is not mastered up to the end well, as well as all process Bdag as a whole. It is in alive creative development. Many after Bdag either leave dag in general or aspire to leave faster in mercury / Mdag.

But Bdag it is the technological baby. Though it is open in 1840. it did not practise so much and well as mercury.

I think to us much still it is necessary to learn(find out) to open and investigate here.

Bdag on the present only begins.

And we can make it.

Excuse for bad English

bailun

[corey r]

I do not ask because gold chloride has failed, I ask because I am curious. My photographic experiences up to this point have always driven me to ask what else will work. Unpredictable results are part of the process for me. While I am primarily concerned with safety (as we should all be when working with such nasty chems), with proper precautionary measures experimentation drives me forward.

Although the process is nearly 170 years old and it has been found that certain chemistry is preferable and predictable, I ask why is it preferred? Is it for its predictability? Availability? Aesthetically preferable?

If it is a question of predictability, I for one am all for trying something that may prove to be frustrating. If aesthetics is the primary reason for choosing gold over another toner that could perform similar protective functions, how am I to know that I won’t find another toner to be more to my personal liking? After all, blued highlights were once frowned upon as a sign of poor craftsmanship but today are seen as an aesthetic choice.

Printing out papers also make use of silver iodide as their photo-active component so I thought this may be a good jumping off point.

Thank you for your response and further questions, hope I’m not ruffling any feathers the wrong way being the newest on the scene calling practices into question.

-Corey

[photolytic]

Printings out papers are made with a mixture of silver chloride/silver nitrate not silver iodide. Silver chloride darkens more rapidly under the influence of light alone than does Bromide or Iodide.

Any metal with an electrochemical reactivity higher than that of silver (or gold) is capable of replacing the silver in a photographic image. We can find likely candidates in the periodic table of elements. http://richardbowles.tripod.com/chemistry/reactivity/reactivity.htm

Platinum, Palladium are likely candidates and have been used to make or tone photographic images before. Unfortunately, they are also expensive. Russia, where Mr. Bailun lives is a major producer of these rare metals and they might be cheaper there. Perhaps he would be willing to try some alternate Dag toning for us.

[corey r]

thanks again for the correction, I may give this a shot my self in time. Palladium chloride is only about fifty cents on the dollar in comparison to gold chloride. perhaps…

[bailun]

It is possible to see your successful dag? Thank.

Originally the idea of gilding has been realized not to paint Dag other color. And to make his(its) orange violet pink.

It was necessary to make less fragile and more durable, archival.

Principle of a photo – TO KEEP/safe the IMAGE.

About it it(he) wrote itself great Daguerre. spoke that his(its) attempts TO KEEP the PRINT/DAG/ with pitches varnishes rubber wax and so on have failed.

The desire was not aesthetics ornaments. And physical existence.

If you want to find sad and upsetting – you will find it. Why is not ?

Here suggested to strew silver sulfur for example.

And gold have chosen not because it yellow brilliant that is beautiful. That is why that through 5 thousand years of it(him) have taken from a tomb of the pharaon and it remained same as it(him) have put – gold. That that does not change.

Symbol of infinity. The god!

I do not love gold as metall. Ornaments and so on. /My lady likes/

But I am compelled it(him) to apply for dag.

Curiosity and economy once have opened America and then a photo.

But curiosity without economy – bad air.

Yes, mr John to use platinum entered into my plans. But as my name not Bill Gates and thank America for a global economic bubble / crisis, my experiences with platinum I lay off.

Your question about hand coloring Bdag looks interesting.

Likely I shall not be mistaken if I shall tell, that hand coloring Bdag does not exist yet.

There is an opportunity to appear first-ever painted Bdag and enter a history.

I do not like hand coloring dag. and blued highlights. excuse.

To paint all is possible everything and everything. But there is a problem of safety. What will be then?

Here the problem / unpredictability / in how will lead itself a pigment a paint in interaction not about mercury, and with salt AgI. and it and is Bdag.

Cadmium chromium ochre oxide titan of zinc and so on.

These are questions to dear mr John. it(he) the chemist and knows about dag all. It(he) can tell about consequences of interaction of these chemical elements.

By the way, originally Daguerre applied iodine to the pictures. It(he) mixed it with oil paints. Result naturally – accident.

At me one regret.

Why Bill Gates does not do(make) daguerreotypes?

We would sit and read here his(its) reports on platinum.

[Bakody]

-Because of the price of the gold chloride, is anyone could find the solution how to replace gold chloride with something else?

-Without gold chloride just pout the b-dag behind the glass and forget about protection. After a few years the image still will be on the surface?

-We should use gold chloride to protect dags. What about to use spray lacquer? Artist use those spray lacquer to protect carbon or graphite drawings. Is anyone has experience with it?

http://daginhun.blogspot.com/
 http://www.facebook.com/DagerrotipiaDaguerreotype

[photolytic]

Concerning the use of varnish on Dags:

This subject was discussed on Jonathon Danforth’s shinyphotos.com on June 8 2008.

Any substance that you put on the surface of the Daguerreotype will have a different refractive index from air and will change the way the image particles reflect and refract the light. I have coated Dags with the gum Sandarac varnish used on ambrotypes, and although it reduces the brilliance of the image considerably it does protect it from abrasion. Because this varnish shifts the wavelength of the reflected light away from the blue region of the spectrum, the varnish will also transform a fugitive or solarized blue image into a warm brown one.

The cost of gilding with gold chloride, currently running around $50/gram, is still only a little over $2 USD for a wholeplate. According to our expert Daguerreotypist from Russia, Bailun, you can also gild with platinum Chloride but I’m not sure of the relative costs.

Compared to the high cost of plates, mats, and cases, the gold is not too high.

[Bakody]

ohh $50 is much cheaper then I found. Maybe I found the most expensive one. I think, I need to find an other shop in Europe.

From where do you buy it?

http://daginhun.blogspot.com/
 http://www.facebook.com/DagerrotipiaDaguerreotype

[photolytic]

$50/gram is the equivalent of $100/gram of gold metal or $3110 USD / troy oz.

That is a little less than twice the current commodity market price for gold.

Artcraft Chemicals in US is selling gold chloride for $48 USD /gram.

http://www.artcraftchemicals.com/products/products-page/general-chemistry/a-m/gold-chloride-solid-part-1700/

I don’t know if they ship to Europe but first class mail may be possible.

[Author]

Posts