advice on cleaning vintage dag….

[supphaman]

Hello, need some advice/tips on how to clean up a plate I recently purchased off ebay. When I received the package it reeked of mold and was littered with green powder around the preserver and on the back of the plate (i assume it’s copper oxidation) The tape seal appeared to be original and was almost completely dissolved around the sides of the package. As a result, there was an abundance of particles, including green powder, on the plate front and the underside of the glass. I have since replaced the glass, blown off most particles that were on the plate and resealed using P-90. However, I would like to remove the remaining particles, perhaps some tarnish on the plate front and the green oxidation on the back. My obvious concern is the risk of further damaging the image, so I need suggestions on how I should go about doing this. Searching the forum I found a post by member “AgNO3” suggesting the use of washing soda dissolved in water for tarnish removal. Has anyone tried this mixture with favorable results? If this process is too risky I won’t attempt it as I can live with the tarnish. As far as the particles and green oxidation, would soaking the plate in distilled water do any good? Should I attempt sanding the oxidation off the back?

 

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[AgNO3]

I’ve done the sodium carbonate cleaning numerous times and have never had a problem. Just find yourself a small aluminum dish or cake pan add a spoonful of washing soda (available at any supermarket near the detergents) and add warm water to cover the plate. After the soda dissolves place the plate on the bottom and gently rock the pan. depending on how strong the solution is the tarnish will slowly begin to lighten and disappear. The dust and particles should also loosen and come off. Take it out when you judge it is clean enough and wash first in tap water and then in distilled water, then dry with an alcohol lamp or cigarette lighter after carefully shaking off excess water.

[Image removed by administrator]

[AgNO3]

Re reading my post it might not be completely clear. The Aluminum dish is crucial to the cleaning, what is happening is an electrochemical reaction that decomposes the silver sulfide. The treatment also has the effect of cleaning the copper back of the plate. You know it’s working if the dish smells faintly of rotting eggs after you put the plate in, that’s the sulfide being released.

The picture was not one of mine, I pulled it off the web, but I can attest that the one’s I’ve cleaned have had just as dramatic a change.

[supphaman]

Thanks for the advice Agno3. The before an after images you’ve posted shows an immense improvement. I’m excited to try it out. I’ll give it a whirl on a plate that i’m not quite as fond of first and take it from there. Many of the plates I own are fairly tarnished, one to the point where the image is hardly perceptible. If this works well, i’ll be giving them all a cleaning. I’ll post the results soon.

[Mike Robinson]

Dear AgNO3,

Your posting of the Southworth and Hawes before and after in relation to your comments on electrolytic cleaning is totally inappropriate!

That image was appropriated from the web without permission or accreditation. I conserved that daguerreotype with treatment of my own development.

I am currently doing significant research in this area and am not yet ready to publish my findings. There are issues with all known methods of conservation.

Please remove that image from your post.

Mike Robinson

[AgNO3]

I’m very sorry, I found the image on this web site: http://www.ryerson.ca/news/media/General_Public/20080616_rn_robinson.html

I did not attempt to pass it off as an image of my own, I only meant it as an example of the cleaning. The caption in the article says it was cleaned by electro cleaning. I should have posted the link where it came from.

I am not familiar with these forums and have not found a way to edit the older posts, that is why I double posted to clarify my post.

If one of the moderators finds it appropriate they can delete the picture or the whole post, I will write a clearer description.

I will try to find another picture of a cleaned image.

I thoroughly apologize if i wronged you.

[Mike Robinson]

I would respectfully ask the moderator to remove AgNO3’s posts related to this thread along with my responses and allow him or her to repost a reply without using this image. That daguerreotype is NOT IN ANY WAY an example of the cleaning method being discussed.

Furthermore, the actual image belongs to another individual who granted permission for its use in the Ryerson University publication. Those rights do not extend beyond that.

thank you

Mike Robinson

[CasedImage]

Hello all, I have removed the image, misappropriation of images is something we want to avoid but I’m sure in this case it was an honest mistake in trying to assist another forum member. Please don’t hesitate to contact one of the three editors of the site (see contact adresses on the “About” page) if your unsure about posting something or have a concern about something that has been posted – we are here to help and one is on the other side of the international date line, so I can fixed problems before they even arise 😉

Hopefully other illustrations directly from the method used can be posted here as cleaning dags is an ongoing issue in the genre, even with 20th century plates (see collectors’ gallery for examples). As long as people have been trying to clean daguerreotypes there have been unwanted results. For those of you unfamiliar, a favoured option of the late 20th century was to clean the plates using thiorea which done in a certain way made the plate then develop “measles”. Some modern conservators still use this method in a altered form as do many individuals so more published research in the area will be well received.

www.CasedImage.com

[botticelli1972]

As a contemporary daguerreotyist who also happens to have a Masters of Art and C.A.S. in Art Conservation, I would not even think of treating my own Daguerreotypes. Fixing split cases, casting missing case halves and cleaning the glass is one thing, cleaning the image is asking for trouble. They made it 150+ years just fine and really bad things happen to cleaned images, not including accidental wipes, scratches, water spots, mercury migration, loss of hand coloring and formation of additional corrosion sites. The tarnish is not only sulfide but part silver and when removed leaves a microscopicly rough surface that has more surface area for the promotion of corrosion and tarnish. Thus once removed, tarnish reappears faster and with more vigor. The more times you clean them the more silver, and thus the more image particles, you remove.

If you MUST clean (ie. you cant even see an image or it is so disfiguring that the piece is worthless as is) start with a 4% technical grade ammonia bath followed by deionized water rinse baths only. You would be surprised how much of that same grime that is on the underside of the glass is also on the surface of the plate. Drying a plate without spots is an art.

I will not get into tarnish removal as that is best left to experts who have done hundreds of plates but current research uses a platinum electrode and not an aluminum pan. I will leave that at that.

Larry

[supphaman]

And I was all excited to give this process a go, but now i’m a bit worried about damaging the image, so I think i’ll hold off on cleaning attempts and instead better seal the package until I can get my hands on some more info. Perhaps wait until Mr. Robinson publishes the conclusion of his research. You got an ETC on that? (jokingly)

[AgNO3]

At least clean the cover glass and rinse the plate in distilled water. Getting rid of any film or organic gunk on the plate would dramatically improve the brilliance.

If you want more information I recommend to anyone here to read The Daguerreotype by Barger and White. I dedicates a chapter to describing in great scientific detail both processes of electro cleaning.

[CasedImage]

A restoration service for cleaning dags can be found at

finedags.com ( http://www.finedags.com/restoration.shtm )

 

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